The point here is that there may be a large market of buyers looking for V8 rumble and panache without the premium price tag.

Even the 300 HP V6 is looked at as "just a V6" car by some, especially the uninformed who don't know what the V6 is packing. If you want to be able to say you have a V8 Camaro, and you ONLY have to pay for the V8, I think that would be a pretty powerful allure. Ask yourself why Mustang continued to flourish even with GT offering the anemic 260-300 HP 4.6. People just wanted to say they have a V8. And now you really can't even do this with a Mustang GT anymore as they have increased the V8 cost of entry. You'd have a pretty cool option to give customers that the other guys don't.

I think this all really illustrates what a screaming bargain even the 2002 Z28 was.

 

I was wondering if you ever bought that RS, Jason. My '83 Crossfire was painfully slow when I bought it too. But it's a smallblock Chevy for goodness sake. It runs pretty darned good now. I just fixed all the CFI's notorious vacuum leaks, new exhaust, new O2 sensor, reset the TPS, initial timing, cleaned the IAC and throttle bodies, new pair of K&N's, adjusted TV cable, etc. etc, -- voila.

On the way to Indy last year, our 30+ Camaro caravan got sort of split up. For the last hour and a half, it was my CFI in front with about 5 or 6 LS1 Camaro's trailing me. When we pulled into the hotel parking lot at Indy, in my coolest, steely eyed expression, I asked the LS1 guys, "did you guys have any trouble keeping up with my Crossfire"? I guess you had to be there.

Anyhoo, a $27K Camaro V8 would damage the marketing position of the higher buck SS considerably. If you want the real reason for no midlevel V8 - that there would be it.

 

[QUOTE=Z28Wilson]The point here is that there may be a large market of buyers looking for V8 rumble and panache without the premium price tag.

Even the 300 HP V6 is looked at as "just a V6" car by some, especially the uninformed who don't know what the V6 is packing. If you want to be able to say you have a V8 Camaro, and you ONLY have to pay for the V8, I think that would be a pretty powerful allure. Ask yourself why Mustang continued to flourish even with GT offering the anemic 260-300 HP 4.6. People just wanted to say they have a V8. And now you really can't even do this with a Mustang GT anymore as they have increased the V8 cost of entry. You'd have a pretty cool option to give customers that the other guys don't.

QUOTE]

I think thats the real trick though. GM decided to up the ante on the V6 by putting its best V6 in the car. They're trying to make the V6 car more appealing instead of just making it an also-ran. The V6 car is filling several different needs, one of which is a cheaper alternative to the G35 Coupe.

I think there was more reason to offer a mid level V8 in the 4th gen. For the 5th gen, they filled that need in a different way.

 

I have little doubt that you are right. The money to be made off the "premium" image of the V8 car is too good to hamstring it.

 

Charlie,
I was so, SO close to buying it. Other than a significant rear end growl, and some rust, it was amazingly clean. He gave me 48 hours to think about it, and up to the 45th hour I thought I was buying it. What kept me from it was the simple fact that I was only buying it because I thought it was pretty The green/gold with the tan interior, gold trimmed wheels, gold RS logos all looked beautiful together. But the reality is, after I bought this I was afraid I'd STILL want a TPI car. I drive my cars. Hard. I don't race or abuse them, ever, but I wind them through the gears and play "Grand Prix d' Off-Ramp" every chance I get. I think a twin to your '89 is really what I'm after. Add to this the fact that my '91 has taught me that if you want a truly CLEAN car, you're better off buying a clean low mileage original. I know I could've made the car quicker...alas, I'm gonna wait for another one

I have NO DOUBT the $27k V8 I'd like damages the SS significantly, which is a big reason why it isn't offered...I'm positive. But I remember in '02 I lost sales on my $27,500 MSRP Formulas IN DROVES to the Ford store down the street with their $23k MSRP Mustang GTs. It didn't matter that my cars had chrome wheels, 50 more HP, t-tops....

All they wanted was a V8. I think GM missed a chance to give up some SS sales, but truly capitalize on that with this gen. It worked, so, so well for the other gens...

 

I agree about spending more to get a better car. I always give that advice, but sometimes don't take it myself. I've seen lots of clean, low miles, LB9/T-5's for sale lately. Check ebay and TGO.

As far as a midlevel V8....

Think about the GT vs SS roadtests so far. A 350 hp Camaro vs a base GT would probably get destroyed by the Mustang - performance wise. Probably wouldn't be good "buzz" for the car.

 

Agreed...but the 350hp Camaro would have a price advantage if structured right, no? Most of the GT road tests I've seen have been $32-34k once you add the track pak and other stuff in.

I know this is not a popular opinion on this board. Those that aren't madly in love with the car as-is are often madly in love with the highest HP models available. I come from the sales and customer budget end of it. I know how many more Firebirds I could've sold in '02 if I'd had a base Firebird with, say at that point, a 270hp 4.8 V8 as a $1,500 option.

For a similar $23,500 that a contemporary '02 Stang GT sold for back then, they'd have flown off the lots and had very similar performance. My dream 5th gen would be a 1LT with a 5.3, a roof and the Boston stereo...and not a damn thing more.

My 2 existing Camaros are V8/stick/open-air/sweet stereo rides. Its all I want.

 

No.

A wise person (on another site) once said that while you can't polish a turd, you can roll it glitter.

As my dissatisfaction with the TBI 305 combo grew, I actually went so far as to order some of the items you mentioned. The next day I realized that it was all just glitter and cancelled the order.

 

I've learned a lot about the TBI setup, and have come to find out the TBI system itself isn't the issue so much as the terrible exhaust that came with it. When I rebuild mine, I plan to add an LT1 cam and inexpensive Vortec heads to it, at which point if I tune it right, I'm at a stock 350 TPI for power levels.

Sure, a little more work than most would like...but I like the car

 

I believe it. That problem continued until at least the LS1 era.

In my experience or that of my peers, long tubes actually provide a more profound "difference" in an LT1 than an LS1. I've not been around any such equipped TPI or TBI cars.


Ultimately for me, it was just faaaar easier to trot down to the dealer and place an order for a new car. I liked my '91 but the skinny pedal just didn't entertain like it should.

Some really old pics....

 

This is pretty far off topic, but the real problem of the TBI motors is the god awful heads that came on thoes motors.

 

The real problem with a TBI engine is everything. The swirl port heads are total trash. The tiny *** cam is trash. The intake is trash, but that's OK because so is the throttle body injection on top of it.

I love thirdgens as much as anyone, but if i ever ended up with a TBI car (and the only reason for that wwould be awaiting the LS1 swap), i'd throw a cheap mild exhaust on it and do my best to never let anyone see how slow the car was. I would not waste my time ripping off the whole top end and a bunch more time with the tuning of that dinosaur just to run 14s.

 

You forgot about the restrictive exhaust.

The L03 wasn't the high perf choice, but it was extremely cheap to build, got good emissions, helped Camaro meet CAFE requirements, could run on cheap gas - and for afew more bucks over the V6, got you into a V8.

 

Heads suck, cams suck, but it ends there. There's guys on TGO making 350hp with a tuned GM ECM and 454 injectors

Not bad for '80s tech, yo

Chewy,
Thanks for sharing the pics!!! Put an OEM grey leather interior and 17" Torq Thrust IIs on your car, and that's EXACTLY what mine looks like I love red...mine had silver accented wheels though, not red. May put them back on someday...but I'm getting the itch to auto-x it for fun Maybe I should PM you one of these days!

 

Did it even matter to mention the exhaust at that point? Besides, if you put a loud exhaust and get stuck at a redlight next to a V6 camry that wants the next on ramp as much as you, he might get a good laugh at all the noise about nothing.

For its day, it was what it was and does at least give you V8 torque for cruising around. But they just don't accelerate and TBI just isn't a performance injection system. There's a reason it was so quickly abandoned on smaller engines after its introduction and only persisted on V8 trucks at the end. I'd run a carb without a second thought before i ran TBI. I'd prefer a nice 730 port injected setup of some nature since i already have the software and intimate familiarity. But then again, i'd prefer an el-ess-won.