Guy,

I have rlsedition's email address if you'd like to talk to him directly. Just send me a PM.

This was the message I never posted. It was in regards to comments that you made in this thread:

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=480426

 

Don't have time to go searching and pull up specific posts he made that I disagreed with since I'd need to go to multiple sites. I'll conceed that it's possible that as a "straight shooter" he may have posted things that unless you previously spoke to him in person, might be misunderstood. But on one side I hear this "Pontiac is going back to square one and you won't have zeta there till 2012 or later" and on the other I have people with Pontiac who are at meetings saying "Pontiac will have a zeta replacement for the Grand Prix on time", and I know Grand Prix isn't going to be around past 2008.

I recall often saying: "Unless someone is actually in the trenches, take what they say with a grain of salt", to which you often replied something to the effect of "..well I know the person who used to run the program.". You're still the only person I know who has posted that Bob Lutz (the guy actually running the shop) doesn't know what he's talking about.

Things change very quickly at all automakers. As I've always said, go with the guys actually in the trenches... as in current tense... to know what's really going on. Not an insult or disrespect to anyone, just a requirement to keep up with changes some might not be aware of.


No Pontiac zeta in "the strictest sense"????

You really like to bend, streach, twist, finagle, jerry-rig, and do summersaults and a twist to things to avoid being wrong, don't you?

Pontiac has a Zeta car that was designed from the start as both a Pontiac and Holden. GM decided to make the car at the now underused Elizibeth City plant in Australia instead of spending massive & insane amounts of money upfront at a time when they are losing cash to gut Oshawa 1 & 2 and begin manufacturing a whole series of new vehicles all at once when it could wait a couple of years (true story).

GM's turning into a global company. "Strictest Sense" is a relative term, & doesn't apply anymore in a day when Camaros are engineered in Australia, China gets Buicks based on chassis from 2 countries, Chevy's entry level cars come from Korea, Opel sells sports cars made in America, and the future will have an even more international flavor.

 

You are wrong. I never said that. Let's clear the record, not only did I NEVER say that, but I WOULDN'T say that because I don't know him. You're getting pretty sloppy with that, and somehow you've deduced that if I dsagree with your opinion, I've obviously had my mind poisoned by rls, because i'ts inconcievable to you that I may have other sources.





Wrong about what?

All I know is you've just spent the past week straining your arm tryng to pat yourself on the back, demanding that the whole world must eat crow, and proclaiming yourself Grand Poobah - why? Because we got a sneak peek of a car that we've ALL been talking about and expecting for over 6 months......but somehow, in your own world......you were the only one who had some sort of secret knowledge of it.

Talk about twisting and stretching........

 

STOP RIGHT THERE. I never said that, ever.

 

Yawn, guys .... you are turning what was a pretty frivalous thread into a big pile of irrelavant arguments. "Strictest sense"? Come on - it's not important who said what, or who predicted what, or who believes who ... this is the internet, and everything said here needs to be taken with a grain of salt until such time it is officially announced. Getting personally wound up over it all is pretty pointless ...

 

OMFG! When have I ever said your mind was poisoned by anyone, let alone rls? I will say you're one of the more stubborn & pessimistic people on the site, but this site would be dull without you.... or our little tiffs.


Straining my arm?
Nope. Arms fine.

Demanding everyone eat crow?
Nope. Just checked all my posts. Don't see any of that.

Proclaiming myself Grand Poobah?
Nope, no posts on that either.

I had some secret knowledge of the G8 coming?
Pehaps I knew it was more definate than some, but being that Lutz himself gave hints, I doubt I'm solo on this.

Seems we're a little grumpy this morning, eh?

 

Not really.

You want to quote me, then quote me. But don't make **** up and proclaim that I've said it.

 

Decromin was right, as far as threads go, this one is pretty frivolous and now way off the rails... JasonE, do you think studded snows on this thread would allow it to handle better than your CompG or a RWD car?

Back to the topic..... I'm not really sure one can say or even qualify that the G8 is better looking or not than the Commodore since the G8 IS a Commodore with naught but a different front fascia, spoiler and apparently, HSV rims. Personally, barring hi-res pics of the Pontiac I'm inclined to say that the Commodore is one attractive car with a slightly better front bumper execution than the G8 - grilles notwithstanding. But then that's how it is with originals I guess, hard to improve on...although I do like that G8 spoiler as opposed to the SS wing.... damn, it's a wash.

What else is there to debate, the G8 isn't even really a variant of the Commodore or VE platform; there's nothing else to really set it apart as would be the case of comparing a GP to an Impala to a Lacrosse/Allure - so which looks better comes down to a preference for one grille or spoiler over another... or worse, which logo looks better on the steering wheel.

 

I think everyone had lower expectations from Pontiac, especially after seeing the horrid execution of the G6 GXP.
No big surprises really in the front end, I wasn't expecting the hoodscoops though. And I'm very pleased with the tasteful rear spoiler.
I'll get a good look at it in the flesh this week.

 

Hard to argue with the G6 GXP point.... the ""street" package is ummm, awful - for lack of a better term, IMO. I don't like the vertically stretched grille or the wing and I'm not sure seeing it in person would make me feel any better about it. I haven't seen any of these cars in person, but I do trust the feeling I get just from the pictures that are out there.

I'm not sure I had lower expectations - I certainly hoped that they wouldn't do much (Ok butcher - too strong a term I know) to the Commodore to make it a Pontiac. Their restraint is welcome, at least from my point of view. The car still looks awesome and pure Commodore.

It's funny, I read on another board where someone posted that they were expecting the Solstice front end to be grafted onto the Commodore in order to make a "proper" G8 - the poster was disappointed with what GM actually did - thank heavens they only went as far as they did. A Solstice/Commodore marriage just wouldn't have worked.

Be sure to post some nice pics for those of us who can't be there to see it in the flesh.

 

I have to agree with you on the spoiler. I like it better than the big import looking wing on the commodore similar on some imports. Pretty stylish.

 

The first sneak pic of the corner really had me excited, but these new pics make me hope it looks better in person. I just passed a newer Grand Prix on the road to lunch...pretty much looked the same...same un-inspired front end, the Altezza-type ricer rear lights are passe, and the rear spoiler also looked like the Grand Prix's....for Pontiac wanting to 'dis-associate' itself with the negative image the Grand Prix/Grand Am's had...they sure went out of their way to make the G8 look like them.

It just resembles every other Pontiac from 1992 onward too much. Different, true, yet still the same.

On the fence...

 

I wonder what kind of an impact stacked headlights would make? They'd probably have to change everything from the cowl forward for that I'd bet.

 

The wait is over....

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=4733

 

That front end looks horrific! Azztek ugly. Damnit, can't they ever get it right?