What Kind of performnce goal should GM set for the 5th Gen Camaro? These are the 1/4mi. times I think each model should be able to acheive.

base v6: 14.9
RS: 13.9
Z28/SS: 13.0
ZL1 12.0 (if we are so lucky )

 

The Camaro should equal or surpass any Mustang model for model. The Cobra is gonna be tough to beat. If the next Cobra is competeing against the Z06 they won the battle. Because Chevrolet will never ever have a Camaro that performs better than a base Corvette...period.

 

Who says the Cobra is going after a new ZO6? They have to be able to beat a base Vette first. Throw in the fact that the new base C6 Vette will smoke a current ZO6, so now you have a car that is moving farther away from a Cobra. Rumors say that the new Cobra will be around 400 hp, if that is true, the Cobra will not even equal a base Corvette(so it seems)...............so, saying that, I think it might be possible to have a Camaro that matches or beats a Cobra. The Camaro may not have the advertised HP numbers but I think the performance will be there.

Now, I agree that the base should be able to get a high 14, mid level, mid to high 13's and the Z28/SS should be no slower than mid 12's.

 

From what I've seen at the track the current Cobra and Z06 are a pretty even match. I think a Z06 is faster than any Camaro ever offered. From what I heard the next gen Cobra will have 500HP. The next Corvette will have 425 6.0 base and 500 6.0 in the Z06.
Do you think Chevrolet will give the next gen Camaro more than 425 hp? Absolutely not!

 

Okay, I am a Mustang guys...died in the wool. However, before you stone me, I am also a "save the" F-body advocate because, well, life is just more fun with a direct competitor.
Having paid a great deal of atention to what the next generation Mustang is going to offer, I have heard the reports of "about" 400hp from the next Cobra, etc. I can also tell you that recent "leaks" from people like Coletti (SVT boss) and others within Ford tell us otherwise.
First, I believe it was Coletti who came out the other day and said the next gen Cobra would get the 5.4L DOHC engine underneath the blower this time as the next logical step up in development. This also fits with SVT's publically stated goal to have the Cobra compete with the Vette Z06 and Viper, as they say they intend to position the GT in 911 GT3 and Ferrari 360 terrirtory.

It is pretty well known that Ford is making a switch to Lysholm style twin screw superchargers to replace the roots-type they use now (The new blowers are made by the same company...If you know the companies name this is an ironic switch). This makes sense as the twin screw design is more efficient, runs much cooler, and basically is gonna cost about the same as the roots. Considering that every SVT concept produced lately (The new Lightning concept, the Mustang concept, and the new GT) have featured the twin screw blower it is a pretty safe assumption. The first production GT's have the twin screw already too.

My point is this. The current Cobra makes 400+hp now as the factory rating is a bit shy...just like the last Ram Air F-body cars. Generally, it is unlikely that a company is going to bump displacement nearly a liter, add a much better blower, and not make more hp. The 500hp number seems to be the leading candidate now. Frankly, Ford could simply bolt the twin screw on the current engine and crank out 50hp better than stock easy.

As for Vette hp, I am not very well informed about what the next gen Vette is going to be packing. I have heard rumours of a 6.0L more than once, and I am certain that if Ford is going to stuff 500 ponies into a Mustang Chevy is gonna make sure the F-Body is up to task.

I have wondered if Chevy will soon take the approach of their Aussie brother Holden and slap a blower on the LS1. My reason being that naturally aspirated, OHV engines (non big blocks here) that get in the 500hp plus range tend to show breathing deficincies in factory streetable trim. (The reason Holden went to a blower to make...you guessed it...500hp) And, GM has to make this thing pass emissions too, so it ain't like one of us doing it to our car. When you look at all the limitations, if Chevy does make 500hp from a n/a engine of 6.0L or less....I have to wonder how badly torque will suffer.

I am in no way bad mouthing Chevy, and the LS1 is awesome....but, even if the LS1 makes it throught the next Z06 with OHV and no blower (Assuming 500hp I would be impressed), I can't imagine it taking much more of hp bump without a switch to bigger cubes,OHC's, or artificial aspiration.

And, for those who have heard that the Ford GT makes 500hp which obviously does not jive with a Mustang making the same. Think about that for a second. Pretty much everyone in the know (including main stream auto mags) is already saying GT hp numbers are more like 590hp....at least. God save the new hp wars.

 

Everyone knows the Z28 and SS will be down around 13.0. I think the best thing GM could do for sales is having the base model V6 pushing high 13s, or 14.0. If they could do that with a little bit of styling they would sell alot more to the younger crowd who want a quick Camaro but cant afford a Z.

 

13.0 will NOT cut it! Not only did the last of the current F cars do about that but with the new C6 motor, anything not nicely in the 12's will be unacceptable. I don't think this is wishful thinking at all either. Take into fact that this will be in a few years so GM will have to leapfrog the current offerings to stay ahead in performance and that means Mustang too.

On a side note, I do believe the new ZO6 will be NA and up around 500, so get ready to be impressed. If they did go the blower route, they would have an engine capable of well over 500 hp or they could only use 2 pounds of boost to keep it at 500.

 

 

Actually I wasnt paying attention to what I was typing, but I still wasnt far off. Low 14s I think would be doable. If they could make the V6s that younger guys could afford halfass compete with stock SRT-4's. Then have the all out Z28s, and SS's running into the high 12's they would gain respect, and thus sales.

 

I think the C6 will come in at:
base 12.5
Z06 11.8

it's the next Z06 getting a 6.4L LS7? if a 6.0L can put out 430HP/430tq (SS concept) then a 6.4L with higher compression should be about to put out 500HP/475tq

My friend has a 2003 Cobra and his best run is a 13.0. I'd expect a 400HP+/- 6.0L Camaro to do a 12.8-13.0.

The next Cobra will be faster due to being lighter but I don't think it will get the GT40 engine, not at first. Maybe a higher rated s/c 4.6L

 

In regards to the 500hp n/a LS1 issue. First, I think you have to look at the hard facts of emissions and sheer limitations of engines to create power and meet requirements. First of all....not too far in the future new CAFE standards kick in. The current LS1 and LS6 still use the skip shift feature to meet current emissions requirements. Forgive my skepticism, but I am not very optimistic about the chances of adding cubes and around 100hp and not getting worse stuff coming from the exhaust.
If GM is willing to pay a tax to build a car that doesn't quite come in clean enough this may work out fine. But, as they already have a truck line that eats up a lot of extra credit, and the fact that they have not been willing to do this before. I am not convinced about the pushrod, n/a route to 500hp. Not in a car GM wants to build quite a few of. Cars like the Viper get away with this, but they are also very rare, and have a lot more cubes.
Here is my other thought. If you do build an engine that meets the new standards, makes 500hp without going into big block cubes territory, and still uses pushrods without a power adder.....I am not saying it cannot be done, but I am saying does GM want to make the comromise an engine like this would likely require?
It seems pretty obvious, and logical that given all the constraints and requirements the engine would have to be a high revving, high strung engine. In factory engines of less than mammoth displacement this almost always means a significantly weaker torque curve. The rev-it til she screams approach is fine, but it has never been what the Vette is about.
My personal opinion on a 500 plus hp Z06 engine. It will happen and it will be at least six liters. But it either won't have pushrods or it will have a blower. Just my opinion. Also, a blower on a Z06 engine requires a lot more than 2psi of boost to make 500hp. The LS1 is great, but even a four valve engine cannot flow like that.

 

You forgot that it won't be an LS1. It will be a new design and of course a better one.

 

I think they should atleast be as fast as the competitor (Mustang).

Having said that:

Base: Assuming next Mustang gets 250hp, expect mid 14's. A base car would need at least mid to high 14's.

z28: High 12's or at the slowest 13.0's. The next GT should be have 305-310hp and will most likely be in the 13.0-13.3 range (If you doubt the GT running that fast with only 310hp, just look at the current 305hp Mach 1's mag tested 13.0-13.2 1/4 mile and sub-107mph trap speeds).

SS: 12.5 to 12.7. I'm not implying that the SS should be the top model, GM has and is. It is best if they position the SS against the Cobra's.

As for the Cobra's Hp #'s. Nothing is certain to date, and the new Cobra is a good 2 years away (2006 model). The rumors have hinted at anything from 400-500hp stock. Colletti has said that it, the Lightning, and GT will have the supercooler which will boost output by 50-60hp for 45 sec periods (recharges automatically in 2 min). So realistically, you can expect anywhere between 450-550hp for the next S/c Cobra equipped with the standard supercooler. The S/c engine is either a 4.6L or a 5.4. Assuming it is the 5.4, the 500hp rating (not including supercooler) sounds possible since the Lightning will have a 500hp 5.4.

 

"My friend has a 2003 Cobra and his best run is a 13.0. I'd expect a 400HP+/- 6.0L Camaro to do a 12.8-13.0."

Holy buckets. I ran a 13.0 (107 mph) dead stock. Either he had bad air or he needs to learn how to drive.



Secondly...

GM does not lose horsepower wars with Ford.

C6 is going to beat on Cobras something ugly (500 lbs. is a LOT to overcome), and Viper better get it's act together or the C6 Z06 is going to show them taillights too.

If I were Ford, I'd make darn sure 500hp isn't the target number for the GT40 thingy... whatever they are calling it this week.

 

Base: 14.9
RS: 14.0
Z28/SS: 12.6 at the most
Or a limited content/production Z28: 12.2

By 06 this will all probably be too slow!!