LOL, he does need to learn how to drive , seriously the best 03 Cobra at the track near me has run 12.9X stock, most run 13.0 stock, maybe this fall as the air gets colder they will be quicker.
Right now the the 03/04 Cobra and base C5 seem to be about neck and neck, the C6 should end that.


They are losing
Cavi vs. Focus
Silverado vs. Lightning
Camaro vs. Mustang

but the way I see it, they may have won those battles, but the war is not over.

 

Hey, I was sad to say the F-Body go too. But, I hate to break it to you. If Chevy doesn't lose hp wars in your opinion then maybe you had better take another look at the Silverado SS-Lightning battel for supremacy. Chevy didn't lose, they never showed up. And, if you want to compain about a "Lighter" regular cab Lightning versus an extended cab SS, the Harley Hauler F-150 will smoke the SS nearly as handily. And both the Harley Hauler and Lightning cost less than the SS.
My point is to say that claiming someone "never" loses a hp "war" is ridiculous.

 

You could also lok at it as Chevy beats all of them nicely model for model except for the SVT versions because Chevy does not have the counterpart for them. That is what they need to work on and accomplish so they can beat Ford accross the board like it should be.

 

You refer to the best and only "real" exotic from the Big 3 as a "thingy"?

It's been called the GT ever since they were approved for production some time last year.

I'm sure the actual numbers will be more than 500. The 500 seems to be an estimate that has been thrown around, and every article i've read with the 500hp estimate had also pointed out that the 500hp would be fairly "conservative rating". I've seen 550 published in Car & Driver once. With the supercooler providing an additional 50-60hp, actual number may very well be in excess of 600+ hp. "Estimates" of 0-60 in 3.5 sec and low 11 sec 1/4 miles were also published. No real #'s to date, just estimates.

We won't know till they hit the street next year or people strap them on to dyno's.

The c6 z06 will be a very nice car and even a better performance value for your dollar than the GT's, but the GT is just in a whole different class. I don't think Ford made the GT to directly compete with the zo6's and Vipers, but rather the Ferrari's, Lamborghini Gallardo's, and Porsche GT2's.

 

You've been brainwashed to believe that OHC engines are vastly superior to OHV pushrod engines.

Remember this, there is no replacement for displacement

~400cid making 500hp NA will be pretty impressive. That's 1.25hp per cid. If Ford's 4.6L was that strong NA, then it would be pushing over 350hp. Even with DOHC, did any NA 4.6L Ford make that much from the factory?

About the emmisions, with DoD, the engine will be cleaner than ever before dispite being much larger in displacement.

 

"They are losing
Cavi vs. Focus
Silverado vs. Lightning
Camaro vs. Mustang

but the way I see it, they may have won those battles, but the war is not over."

1) Camaro beat the snot out of Mustang for the 9 years prior to it getting axed.

2) Cavi vs. Focus? I own a Cavalier and I couldn't care less.

3) Silverado SS vs. Lightning. Yes. Rest of the truck line up? NO.



"My point is to say that claiming someone "never" loses a hp "war" is ridiculous."

Well then, we can establish that you're wrong. Ford has been beaten down in the power category since well before 1970. Let's see... Lightning.... 2003 Cobra... HD F-150.... ***Insert Cricket Noises Here***

It's never been close Ford had a little time in the sun with 5.0 liter Mustangs. Then GM fires back with Buick Grand Nationals and TTA's. Ugly...

GM's at the end of a powertrain cycle right now, Ford has just started one. The bar is going up a few notches in 2005...



"You refer to the best and only "real" exotic from the Big 3 as a "thingy"?

It's been called the GT ever since they were approved for production some time last year."

Real exotic? That thing?

Mark my words...

6 years from now, there will be Corvette, yet again, all alone as America's sports car. It has been, is and evermore will be. Maybe Viper can hang on that long (not looking promising...), but the Ford poser will be consigned to the scrap heap of history (again...) in short order.

 

Whoever said that the current Cobra is a even match for the current Z06 needs to put the crack pipe down. Current Z06's trap around 116 in stock form, and the Cobra is no where near that. From what I've seen (first hand) the Cobra runs around 110 stock...

 

Bro, don't take offense to this, but you have no idea how rediculous this post sounded. Brand loyalty is obviously getting the best of you. Just admit it. If it had a bowtie in place of an oval, you'd be praising it as gods personal gift to man.

The GT fits the bill of an exotic to a T, and it is far from some "poser" as you billed it. The 1st GT was recently auctioned off at over $500,000+, and at $125-150k MSRP is a very worthy competitor in its class (360, GT2, Lambo Gallardo, etc...). Quite the poser. You're entitled to your opinion, but it is very far (as far as far gets) from the truth.

Again, the GT is not a direct vette competitor. Comparing the vette to a GT is like comparing a Cobra to a vette. The c6 will most likly be out-classed and outperformed in every aspect, just as the Cobra is.

As for the vette outlasting it. There are rumors that Ford may not build the GT after 07. The ONLY purpose of the GT was to apply some polish to the recently dirtied blue oval badge, and that called for a Halo car that boosted the image of Ford. Once things get back on track for Ford, they may do away with the GT. That wouldn't make the vette a better car though. What ever limited #'s Ford builds will all be sold off (Even at way above MSRP and with crazy markups), and they'll have their place in the history books. The vette may also have 50 years of history, but that doesn't hold a candle to the GT-40's legendary domination of Lemans. Quantity doesn't always equal quality. That's not to say that the vette didn't have a quality 50 years (it did), but it's history is by no means any more storied or better than the GT-40's.

This isn't a put down on the vette since it shines in its very own way. The vette truely is an amazing car too. I'm just putting things into prospective.

 

The Cobra could trap 150mph and it still wouldn't be a z06 caliber vehicle. Hp, 1/4 miles, or even performance alone don't make the car.

However, I've seen traps speeds as high as 113.5mph (from MM&FF and Motor Trend). Saying it isn't even close isn't true. That's pretty much inline with the 385hp z06's and not far from the 116mph you posted.

Still, the Cobra is and most likely never will be a c5 caliber car let alone a z06. It still is a Mustang.

 

Track Pack - stone stock - mid to high 12's under normal weather conditions with a competent, non-professional driver.

I would then expect someone like Evan Smith (sp?) to rip off a high 11 run under favourable conditions.

 

Not at all. If it had a bowtie on it I'd be knee-deep in somebody's a$$ screaming about how it is nowhere near enough car for the money.



Pffft.

The Mosler Photon is an exotic. Lamborghini builds exotics. The Enzo is an exotic.

Ford + exotic is an oxymoron.

That's OK, Chevrolet doesn't build exotics either... they just build a car that outperforms many of them for a third of the price. And if I were Ford, I'd be afraid... very afraid. Chevrolet has a very good chance of embarrasing their "pseudo exotic" in short order.

P.S. I know a bit more about this car than you give me credit for... and we'll leave it at that.



Again, I HIGHLY doubt this. The General is packing serious heat this time around.



It'll be gone. ***POOF***

Edsel...
Thundertub...
GT...



Step away from the crack pipe. Corvette vs. GT40? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I seem to remember some Corvettes winning LeMans...

There can be only one.

Supra found that out. So did the RX-8 and the 300ZX. Viper's next. The GT will follow shortly.

All consigned to the scrap pile of cars that dared to challenge the Corvette on it's own turf.

 

I have a really good feeling that the "GT" is going to get smoked by the next ZO6. Handleing is only going to get better on it too. Other wanabes better watch out. Of course this is all speculation but from what info is available at this time, the ZO6 is going to be a monster.

I also don't think the "GT" will be here that long, there are just too many variables for it's success(performance, dated styling, price, reputaion, competition, "exotic factor",ect).

 

THe GT is just ment to be a limited time niche vehicle, not a new model that will be around for the next 50 years.

I think if Caddy made the Cien they would been in the same boat. Make a Hot supercar for just a few years just to boost your brands image.

 

And what are the basis for this? The vette? Gimme a break. You think all cars are built alike? Aluminum, space-framed, mid engined, hand-built, 15” braked, 200+mph cars don't come cheap. All cars aren't built the same. As an engineer, you more than anyone should know that.

So that's the only logic you're going by? Not a very good one. Just because Ford isn't known for Exotics, the GT is less of an exotic? Going by that logic, the Cien wasn't an exotic because it was a Cadillac. The v12 powered Ford GT-90 and Indigo weren't exotic? “But…they've got a ford badge”. Come on man. The GT has the pure DNA of an exotic.

Vw is rumored to have a v12 powered exotic (Might share things with the new Buggati) in the works and Honda makes the NSX. The badge alone doesn't make one car less of an exotic. One can easily tell that the GT isn't your average Ford. Add in the Gt-40's well known history, and it having a Ford badge doesn't matter. It its own brand within a brand (much like corvette within Chevy)

To embarrass it, it’ll have to outperform and out-class it. Both of which I doubt the c6 will do. I don’t think the Ferrari 360 or 575M owner would care about a z06 beating or coming close to the performance of his sub-200k performance car. 2 very different markets with different consumers.

Then give the GT and Ford their due credit.

So does the current and upcoming 2006 Cobra, but that doesn’t make it a vette competitor. #’s are only one part of the puzzle or what make a car. Heck, there are rumors of the next Cobra having a z06 matching 500hp. What ever it is, it’ll have more than the regular c6 vette.

The only thing that would kill the GT is Ford themselves. And i only say that because the GT owns its existance to Ford needing a Halo car to boost its somewhat tarnished image. Once thing are back on track, they may kill it off due to them not needing it as an image booster. Maybe they'll keep it around. The car will not fail or lead to it’s own grave. Someone already paid well over $500,000 in an auction for the 1st GT and he/She won't even recieve dilevery till next spring. lAnd demand is said to be so high, that getting one would have to involve you “be-friending” the dealer selling it. Doesn’t sound like the GT is struggling.

Please, even the Mustang has had a history rich lifespan. Some argue that it's very close to the vettes. Don't think 50 years and some good cars can hold a candle to pure "racing" heritage, domination, and legendary wins at the most coveted racing series.

Sorry, I don’t do drugs either. They’re bad for you.

Yeah i know it laughable. Again, Cobra vs Vette like comparo. Bwahahahahhaha indeed.

Ohh, i didn't know they finally took out Audi and posted 1, 2, and 3 overall. The C5-R does well in its respective class which is GTS. There's a difference between winning in your respective class, and winning Overall. Ferrari was the Audi of the 60's, and Ford had no trouble trouncing them for 1, 2, and 3 overall (multiple times). When Vettes beats those dominating Audi's and force them out of LeMans, i'll put the C5-R on the same pedestal as the GT-40. Lofty task though seeing as how Cadillac, which runs in the same class as the Audi’s has failed miserably. 40 years from now, will most of the auto industry recall or even mention the C5-R’s 2003 LeMans finish in GTS? Lol. Both have been successful in their respective classes, but it’s far from equal.

You’ve missing the point bro. All those cars were vette competitors (the supra was more than worthy), but the GT isn’t. They (GT) aren’t challenging vettes nor are they on the vette’s turf, they’re challenging certain Ferrari’s, Porsches, and Lambo’s and playing on their turf. Big difference. Compared to those exotics, the GT will pack a lot more performance and come in at substantially less. The Ferrari 360 was its specific target, and about the only Ferrari that’ll beat it would be the Mega-exotic Enzo. The 575 and the mid-trim Ferrari’s will fall short.

“When the GT goes on sale next spring, it will be a remarkable bargain at less than $150k. That undercuts the 360 Modena, a wonderful car that the GT should leave in its dust.” -----Car & Driver.

One mans rip-off is another mans bargain. My father will tell you vettes are rip-offs (he can’t fathom paying that much for a car), but to most of us, it’s a bargain. For those that have the money, the GT will offer them everything the GT2’s, Lambo Gallardo’s, and 360’s offers at a much cheaper price. To them, the GT might be a bargain.

 

Finaly, someone that gets the real picture.

At the most 4,500 GT's will be built and 2007 is rumored to be the cut-off date. That's not certain, but those might be Fords goals.