I don't think being down by 20-30hp peak is the final word on it. The 4.6 DOHC obviously has a much higher usable RPM range. That's where it makes up.

There's no gearing on a M6 LS1 that a Mach1 can't match with higher gearing. Add the fact that the Mach1 rearend won't explode with slicks and the Mach1 goes right on by the LS1 Fbod when traction is added to the mix.

Different motors, different gearing, same results. Parity in my book.

 

You said the MOTOR was on par...I said it wasn't

 

Another interesting dyno fact I found at another website:

One preson had a GTO dyno:
305RWHP/.85 = 359HP
326tq/.85 = 383tq

 

Your math is good...except for the fact you're using your own numbers.

The 2 Cobras I've seen dyno were in the low 350s to low 360's range. I've obviously heard of the 370rwhp numbers, but I wasn't there for those. If we use those numbers, we can lower your Cobra numbers by about 8hp - or about 20% lower gain than you posted. Yes, that's off by a bit when you're trying to make the point that you are.

You admitted you were off by at least 7hp on the Mach I. That's about 25% off by your own caluculations.

An '02 Lightning in my club put down 333rwhp (a number that's not hard to forget) and gobs of torque. Using that or other similar numbers you can see you're off by another 33%.

GT - My whole point was that Ford my readjust their numbers. Doubtful, but it's possible. I never doubted it's numbers.

The '05 Mustang isn't out yet. I haven't debated it yet.

I agreed with your ZO6 numbers.

So on the 3 that I actually *DID* argue...you were off by 20%, 25%, and 33% respectively. Who's the one who need to do a little math? My numbers may seem low to you but your numbers appear to be best case for the cars you picked. Somewhere in between is probably the best bet.

-Rich

 

Without getting into the numbers, the Lightning, 2003 Cobra, and Mach 1 are underrated for a FACT. By how much i won't get into since this varies from car to car. Some of you know this first hand since we've seen some Ls-1's dyno 290rwhp, while some others have dyno'd as high 316rwhp stock.

As far as the Ford GT, 550 comes off as no surprise since i expected that if not more. I wouldn't be surprised to find that slightly underrated as well.

EDIT: Will the supercooler show up on the GT? I remember SVT talking about adapting this new tech to their blower cars. Did it get dumped, or will we see it on any SVT car anytime soon?

 

Low 350's are extraordinarily low. Here is a brief poll from svtperformance.com. Granted it's only 23 respondents at this point, but it's likely very representative of what '03/'04 Cobras dyno.
For every one that dynos 350-360rwhp, there are probably three that dyno over 380rwhp.
Another unusually low number. Most dyno mid-340's and up, with many over 360rwhp. Here are a few from f150online. The search function on svtperformance is down, but you'd likely find similar numbers. I'd say anything in the low-330's and below is unusually low.

I definitely agree about the '05 Mustang GT. I'd wait and see what the actual production cars make before making a judgement.
S.

 

Z06s are NOT underrated. They actually put out about 405 horsepower by every actual dyno I've ever seen. here's a couple on the internet:
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/c/...a/Z06/Dyno.htm
http://www.dynoperformance.com/artic...ails.php?ID=28

Of all the LS1 & LS6 production cars ONLY LS1 F-bodies were grossly underrated.

By most accounts, they seem to run from 320hp early on (while advertized at 305) to about 350 for the SS & 340 for the Z28 (advertized at 345 in SS trim and 310 in base).

As far as waiting to see averages before taking Mustang GT's power numbers seriously is a bit foolhardy. It's not like one engine is going to put out 330 horses & the next is going to put out 300.

The variable on horsepower figures nowadays with closer tolerances and modern manufacturing (not to mention the the precision tuning needed for emission standards) is typically less than 5 horsepower.

If something is dynoed at 330 in final production form, it's a near certainty that you won't find one lower than 325, let alone 320.

 

Of course you use your own statistically insignificant numbers to calculate variance of my numbers. Let's see, your sample size on the Cobra is 2. And the Lightning is 1. Not to mention they're low. It seems you simply don't accept that Cobras dyno mid 360s average and that Lightnings dyno mid 340s average. Our friend Snor has provided you a link below.

We all believe what we want.

I don't know what you're arguing on the Ford GT. They rated it 500 and then uprated it to 550, meaning it was at LEAST 50hp underrated to start with.

I'm not debating the '05 GT either.

So not using YOUR 3 eyewitness samples RWHP but an average rw dynos from many members, I only overrated the Mach1 by about 7hp and the Z06 by 8hp. But you didn't argue the Z06 numbers, because it makes Chevy look good.



I'll go ahead judge. 13.2@107 bonestock.
12.8@109 with drag radials

 

Right. They are.

2 3400lb cars. Two different motors. Same results.

 

I give up. How is a motor that produces 275 RWHP on par with one the produces 300 RWHP? Like I said...GEARING makes the ET for the Mach on par with an LS1 F-bod. HP is still down...hence mph is 2-3 slower on average.

Oh...and how are drag radials gonna give the new Mustang 2mph?

 

It boils down to usable RPM range. Simple as that.

What's the difference if a certain motor wants 4.10s and the other wants 3.73s? Who cares? They operate in DIFFERENT manners to produce the SAME results.

Put the BEST gear in an M6 LS1, what is that? 3.73? 4.10?. OK then put the BEST gear for the DOHC in the Mach1. 4.30? They'll still be nose to nose from stop to top. Hence the powerplants have the SAME potential to propel equal weight cars through the 1/4 mile in the same time.

That's all. Different motors, same results in equivalent cars. Parity

You're right on the mph. My mistake. Although a better launch can get you 1 mph sometimes.

 

I used to believe this too. But from what the Z06 owners are averaging on Z06vette.com, ~355 rwhp.

 

Ford.com still has the GT specs at 500HP, no one else has reported it yet either

I would have thought the car news site would have jumped all over this by now.

 

I agree with you about the acceleration of the vehicles. Again, I am talking about the "parity" of the motors. Are you telling me that if both motors were strapped to an engine dyno, they would produce the same HP/TQ? The LS1 has a DAMN GOOD usable RPM range as well...

 

The typical 2001/2002 LS1 has a 20-30 RWHP advantage over the typical 2003/2004 4.6L DOHC found in the Mach 1.

Fortunately for those of us the own the 4.6L DOHC motors, we are able to take advantage of steeper gearing due to the rpm potential of the motor, allowing us to stay withing striking distance of a like-modded LS1.