Every new DCX launch seems to have a glaring issue with it...
10-31-2006, 08:06 AM
#1
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Every new DCX launch seems to have a glaring issue with it...
I know I don't post around here much anymore, but still manage to lurk at lunch. As I've watched each of our new models roll through, I am always wondering...how would GM have attacked these various segments if they had a new model hitting right now? To wit:
Dodge Caliber:
I know I've talked about this one before. Its doing great in sales, dealers can't keep them in stock, and its surpassing sales expectations. But, when you look at the core car? The CVT sucks (when you let off the gas sometimes, it feels like you're lurching and hitting the brakes, too) and the interior screams injection molded plastic. Otherwise though, its not too shabby. The doors sound like a piece of tin when you slam one, but otherwise the car is ok. However, seeing as how new launches are more crucial for DCX than ever before, the above items seem unacceptable IMO.
Dodge Nitro:
We just got our first one in yesterday...a basic SXT with cruise, tinted windows and an AT for $22,945. Great price point. Extremely solid ride. Nice interior design, with a substantial feel to the console, center stack instruments, nice two-tone cloth seats. IMO, it seems very well equipped for the money, and the 3.7 seems to be mated to the AT well. But when you walk around to the front of it, IMO the nose is just AWFUL. Also, with the SXTs, you don't get body color bumpers and wheel flares, which scream cheap and in certain colors I've seen, simply UGLY.
Jeep Compass:
The Compass seems to go over better than the Caliber IMO. The interior, while more bland, is at least a relatively decent design...but its still plasticky as hell. This is an even more glaring problem with the Compass than the Caliber, because the Compass is a significantly more expensive vehicle. It bases $2,000 higher, and its not uncommon to have a $24-25k Compass when you have an AWD Limited model. The doors are much more solid than the Caliber, and its nice because the 2.4 is the only engine (gutless 1.8s and 2.0s are in the Caliber, too), AND you can get it with a 5 speed and AWD. Overall, the Compass is selling better for us, but nationwide it appears the Caliber is selling at a much faster rate. I will say, the handling and ride seems excellent for its intended market.
Jeep Wrangler:
I've always liked Wranglers, but never wanted to live with their flappy tops, awful ride and cheap interior. The '07s are amazing...the ride is phenomenal, the cloth tops don't flap AT ALL, even at 80, and the interior, while still plasticky like every other DCX launch, is much more functional, attractive and usable. Its great seeing a Wrangler with PW, PL and a GREAT Infinity stereo for under $25k in the Sahara model. So what sucks about it? Its kind of like comparing a 4th gen to a 3rd gen...sure, its smoother, quieter, more comfortable and has much better ergonomics and build quality, but somewhere along the way it lost charm. The torquey I6 has been replaced by a minivan 3.8. You feel less of the road and the elements. Its like a double edged sword...what made the old Wrangler elemental and fun also made it annoying. No annoyances in the new one, but it seems less endearing...and I've noticed many Wrangler owners agreeing. I've sold 2 $30k Rubicons since my '07s showed up. Both customers waited until our '07s showed up, then ripped the new models a new a**hole, and bought the old style. Go figure...for me, despite this, I'd still buy an '07 in a heartbeat. They're so much more livable, and the price point is far better than the old ones...the old ones were at least $3-4k overpriced for what you got, across the board...
Chrysler Sebring
Haven't driven one yet, but we just got our first one in this morning. Being a car guy, I'm very interested to take it for a spin and compare it to a G6 and Aura. More news after lunch
Dodge Caliber:
I know I've talked about this one before. Its doing great in sales, dealers can't keep them in stock, and its surpassing sales expectations. But, when you look at the core car? The CVT sucks (when you let off the gas sometimes, it feels like you're lurching and hitting the brakes, too) and the interior screams injection molded plastic. Otherwise though, its not too shabby. The doors sound like a piece of tin when you slam one, but otherwise the car is ok. However, seeing as how new launches are more crucial for DCX than ever before, the above items seem unacceptable IMO.
Dodge Nitro:
We just got our first one in yesterday...a basic SXT with cruise, tinted windows and an AT for $22,945. Great price point. Extremely solid ride. Nice interior design, with a substantial feel to the console, center stack instruments, nice two-tone cloth seats. IMO, it seems very well equipped for the money, and the 3.7 seems to be mated to the AT well. But when you walk around to the front of it, IMO the nose is just AWFUL. Also, with the SXTs, you don't get body color bumpers and wheel flares, which scream cheap and in certain colors I've seen, simply UGLY.
Jeep Compass:
The Compass seems to go over better than the Caliber IMO. The interior, while more bland, is at least a relatively decent design...but its still plasticky as hell. This is an even more glaring problem with the Compass than the Caliber, because the Compass is a significantly more expensive vehicle. It bases $2,000 higher, and its not uncommon to have a $24-25k Compass when you have an AWD Limited model. The doors are much more solid than the Caliber, and its nice because the 2.4 is the only engine (gutless 1.8s and 2.0s are in the Caliber, too), AND you can get it with a 5 speed and AWD. Overall, the Compass is selling better for us, but nationwide it appears the Caliber is selling at a much faster rate. I will say, the handling and ride seems excellent for its intended market.
Jeep Wrangler:
I've always liked Wranglers, but never wanted to live with their flappy tops, awful ride and cheap interior. The '07s are amazing...the ride is phenomenal, the cloth tops don't flap AT ALL, even at 80, and the interior, while still plasticky like every other DCX launch, is much more functional, attractive and usable. Its great seeing a Wrangler with PW, PL and a GREAT Infinity stereo for under $25k in the Sahara model. So what sucks about it? Its kind of like comparing a 4th gen to a 3rd gen...sure, its smoother, quieter, more comfortable and has much better ergonomics and build quality, but somewhere along the way it lost charm. The torquey I6 has been replaced by a minivan 3.8. You feel less of the road and the elements. Its like a double edged sword...what made the old Wrangler elemental and fun also made it annoying. No annoyances in the new one, but it seems less endearing...and I've noticed many Wrangler owners agreeing. I've sold 2 $30k Rubicons since my '07s showed up. Both customers waited until our '07s showed up, then ripped the new models a new a**hole, and bought the old style. Go figure...for me, despite this, I'd still buy an '07 in a heartbeat. They're so much more livable, and the price point is far better than the old ones...the old ones were at least $3-4k overpriced for what you got, across the board...Chrysler Sebring
Haven't driven one yet, but we just got our first one in this morning. Being a car guy, I'm very interested to take it for a spin and compare it to a G6 and Aura. More news after lunch
10-31-2006, 09:23 AM
#3
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The new Jeep Wranglers look great. One thing to remember about those is that the owners are just as hardcore about there vehicles as Camaro owners. Things the avg. person might not like, they love. Interior is a jeep should be rugged.
Jason, how are traditional Jeep owners liking the 4 doors Wranglers? I like them a lot and love that all 4 doors come off.
Jason, how are traditional Jeep owners liking the 4 doors Wranglers? I like them a lot and love that all 4 doors come off.
10-31-2006, 11:36 AM
#4
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I just can't get over how Chrysler is using **** materials in these otherwise-attractive interiors. The new Sebring is VERY nicely styled on the inside, but everything is hard-*** plastic. Its just a shame. Didn't they learn from the crap GM used to take in the press over their own interiors? My ex-girlfriend's '98 Plymouth Breeze had nicer dash materials than this Sebring!!! The '03 Grand Cherokee I sold her back in the Spring has much higher quality dash materials, seats, carpet, etc. versus a brand new one...that was one of the reasons we chose to get her a used one instead of a new one.
As for the 4 door Wranglers, the damn things are on fire. No one can get one, and if they do, they can't keep it long! I've only gotten 2 so far, and 1 is long gone. I know what you mean about "traditional Jeep" people, and I already had the conversation with my staff about how I liken this '07 re-design to the way us Camaro nuts feel about our car. In my opinion, true purists will not be crazy about the new Wrangler...but it will sell like hotcakes to a lot of people who would have never bought one before. We've already seen signs of this, especially because of the 4 door option now. Its sort of like if the 4th gen was narrower, easier to see out of, sat a little higher, rode a little smoother, and had vastly better ergonomics. The things that make a car more pure to people like us make the rest of the world dislike it...
I've even considered leasing a new one myself for a fun bang-around toy, but seeing as how I already have 2 Camaros I drove a combined 5,000 miles this year, and have no need for a daily driver, I think the $$$ is better invested in my poor RS. The previously-mentioned ex-girlfriend managed to key the poor thing last week in 3 spots while she was getting the rest of her stuff out of my house (and while I wasn't looking, obviously!!
), and currently the car is sitting in my body shop awaiting its resurrection 
It might be 16 years old and have about 185hp or so the way it sits, but every time I fire it up, I still get goosebumps The new girlfriend assured me she's not crazy enough to harm it, so that works for me
As for the 4 door Wranglers, the damn things are on fire. No one can get one, and if they do, they can't keep it long! I've only gotten 2 so far, and 1 is long gone. I know what you mean about "traditional Jeep" people, and I already had the conversation with my staff about how I liken this '07 re-design to the way us Camaro nuts feel about our car. In my opinion, true purists will not be crazy about the new Wrangler...but it will sell like hotcakes to a lot of people who would have never bought one before. We've already seen signs of this, especially because of the 4 door option now. Its sort of like if the 4th gen was narrower, easier to see out of, sat a little higher, rode a little smoother, and had vastly better ergonomics. The things that make a car more pure to people like us make the rest of the world dislike it...
I've even considered leasing a new one myself for a fun bang-around toy, but seeing as how I already have 2 Camaros I drove a combined 5,000 miles this year, and have no need for a daily driver, I think the $$$ is better invested in my poor RS. The previously-mentioned ex-girlfriend managed to key the poor thing last week in 3 spots while she was getting the rest of her stuff out of my house (and while I wasn't looking, obviously!!
), and currently the car is sitting in my body shop awaiting its resurrection It might be 16 years old and have about 185hp or so the way it sits, but every time I fire it up, I still get goosebumps
The new girlfriend assured me she's not crazy enough to harm it, so that works for me
Last edited by Jason E; 10-31-2006 at 11:39 AM.
10-31-2006, 01:51 PM
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I think you are just seeing a (currently) inevitable march toward ever cheaper materials as a cost-cutting measure…almost every make and model at almost every price point seems to be suffering from it.
Even on the $50K+ Corvette the interior isn’t, IMHO, up to snuff for a car in that price range…the performance of course is great but I question how well the interior pieces will hold up over time and I could make almost the same observation about almost every vehicle today.
A lot of the blame has to rest with the manufacturers yet I think suppliers are cutting corners as well…they promise a certain level of quality in their plastic (and other parts) but when push comes to shove, they cut corners in order to eek out a profit on jobs they probably underbid to get the work.
The only way I see this change is if enough people complain and vote with their pocket book by not buying cars with these cheap interiors.
Even on the $50K+ Corvette the interior isn’t, IMHO, up to snuff for a car in that price range…the performance of course is great but I question how well the interior pieces will hold up over time and I could make almost the same observation about almost every vehicle today.
A lot of the blame has to rest with the manufacturers yet I think suppliers are cutting corners as well…they promise a certain level of quality in their plastic (and other parts) but when push comes to shove, they cut corners in order to eek out a profit on jobs they probably underbid to get the work.
The only way I see this change is if enough people complain and vote with their pocket book by not buying cars with these cheap interiors.
10-31-2006, 02:24 PM
#6
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I agree with Robert, this isn't a Chrysler only thing. I noticed the same thing on the new Mustang & Cobalt I rented. Great looking interior, hard cheap feeling plastic.
The only new US car interiors I've been in recently that didn't seem to be cheap were the big cars (DTS, Lucerne, Crown Vic-Grand Marquis-Town Cars, etc...)
The only new US car interiors I've been in recently that didn't seem to be cheap were the big cars (DTS, Lucerne, Crown Vic-Grand Marquis-Town Cars, etc...)
10-31-2006, 05:09 PM
#8
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[QUOTE=Jason E;4195145]I've always liked Wranglers, but never wanted to live with their flappy tops, awful ride and cheap interior. The '07s are amazing...the ride is phenomenal, the cloth tops don't flap AT ALL, even at 80, and the interior, while still plasticky like every other DCX launch, is much more functional, attractive and usable. Its great seeing a Wrangler with PW, PL and a GREAT Infinity stereo for under $25k in the Sahara model... The torquey I6 has been replaced by a minivan 3.8. You feel less of the road and the elements... [QUOTE]
Yeah, I was really afraid this would happen to the wrangler one day. The Jeep was never about ride comfort or power windows, for the first few decades of its life (when the wrangler was known as a cj...) the jeep was all about utility. When civilian jeeps were introduced in 1945 you could get a 3 point lift, a welder, sickle-bar mower and any number of farm and industrial tools. That's a far cry from today's power locks and stereo systems. Of course, I'm biased since I'm restoring a 1947 cj-2a, but if I weren't I'd probably be ok with the changes.
Yeah, I was really afraid this would happen to the wrangler one day. The Jeep was never about ride comfort or power windows, for the first few decades of its life (when the wrangler was known as a cj...) the jeep was all about utility. When civilian jeeps were introduced in 1945 you could get a 3 point lift, a welder, sickle-bar mower and any number of farm and industrial tools. That's a far cry from today's power locks and stereo systems. Of course, I'm biased since I'm restoring a 1947 cj-2a, but if I weren't I'd probably be ok with the changes.
Last edited by montytrmpt; 10-31-2006 at 05:11 PM.
10-31-2006, 05:42 PM
#9
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I would never EVER pay that much money for a new wrangler. I used to work at a Chrysler dealership a few years ago and for the life of me couldn't understand why people would spend 26k on one....
If you going off-road (which is all they are good for) why not buy a way cheaper used one? I've always really liked the 4.0 though.
If you going off-road (which is all they are good for) why not buy a way cheaper used one? I've always really liked the 4.0 though.
11-01-2006, 10:21 AM
#10
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I would never EVER pay that much money for a new wrangler. I used to work at a Chrysler dealership a few years ago and for the life of me couldn't understand why people would spend 26k on one....
If you going off-road (which is all they are good for) why not buy a way cheaper used one? I've always really liked the 4.0 though.
If you going off-road (which is all they are good for) why not buy a way cheaper used one? I've always really liked the 4.0 though.
Not liking the new wrangler. The interior is becoming way too car-like, even the TJ's interior is too car-like IMO but I still own one.
('01 Wrangler owner)
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