They are banking on the fact that the taget buyer feel V8 > V6. The Northstar crushes the 3.3L that is why they said ES330. The 3.5L Direct injection V6 is a lot stronger and a fair match for the Northstar, you probably won't hear a comparison with that.


on a side note, when is the Northstar getting DI? With all these high power V6s sneaking up to the 300HP mark (including GMs own 3.6L) The FWD Northstar is going to get eaten alive soon.

 

Fact is V8's are very popular right now in large sedans . Why would Buick not want to emphasize the option in the Lucerne . And why on earth would they waste a cent advertising the 3800 when it will be replaced by much more modern powerplant in 2007 . If I remember right the Lucerne is getting the dohc 3.6 and a 6 speed auto as a base drivetrain in 07 ....correct me if Im wrong .

 

A Northstar Lucerne has 275hp... an ES 6 cylinder has 218hp... (unless I am missing an optional engine on the Lexus website)

http://www.lexus.com/models/es/performance.html

Plus, I'd say, in a luxury car especially... there is something to be said for the smoothness of a V8 vs. a V6... even if the power was equal (which it is not... by 57 horses...)

 

I think you are taking what people have said here about the 3800 V6 out of context. No one ever said "nobody cares about the powertrain" that I remember, what was said (and backed by Red Planet) was the fact that traditional Buick buyers still like the 3800 because of its reputation of being a dependable and durable motor, no matter how "unrefined" it may be. So I still see no link between Buick's commercial and the base motor.

You want a V8 in a midsize near-luxury sedan? Better buy the Lucerne. I think it's pretty cut-and-dry.

 

I think Threxx's ***** just twitched at the mention of a Lexus in a Buick commercial and he had to let us know.

 

How is that any different from Toyota advertising their I-force V8 in their pickups? It isn't! By branding & advertising the engine, you can eventually create your own market for it. It creates recognition and market acceptance & can even demand a premium if the engine has the credentials to pull it off. Almost all auto manufacturers do it. Ford has their Triton & Powerstroke, Dodge has their Hemi, GM has the Vortec, Ecotec, Duramax and Northstar, Nissan has their VQ, and Toyota their I-Force. It shouldn't upset you when Buick is doing it. Give Buick some credit: They have something that makes their vehicle unique from their competition and they are exploiting it. It really doesn't even matter about the physical engine output. The Northstar V8 and Toyota's latest 3.5l V6 have fairly comparable output, but a V8 will command a premium with the consumer 9 out of 10 times. Look at Acura. They have 4cyl and 6cyl engines that are plenty potent for their vehicle classes & you'll hear all day long about how Acura suffers for lack of a V8. I don't see anything wrong with this -- it's smart advertising by Buick.

 

Another 2006 ES330 vs 2006 Lucerne V8 point of interest:

Starting MSRP for ES330: $32,990.

Starting MSRP for Lucerne CXL V8: $29,995.

 

You must have missed the part where I said ES350... the new 3.5L GR series which is replacing the 3.3L (which dates back to about 1990 in many ways).

It isn't any different, but everybody knows that pickup truck buyers live and die by their motors. What was being said in this forum previously was that the majority of lucerne buyers were indifferent about the motor and trans as long as it was reliable and could get up to highway speed without being a danger. That comment makes it seem like the motor is relatively unimportant to the average Lucerne buyer; yet that was the focus of every Lucerne commercial I saw yesterday (and I saw three different ones).

I'm not saying it's bad advertising practice. I'm just saying apparently their marketing research people view the customer base for this car as being people who DO care about the motor. Otherwise they wouldn't be talking so much about it, IMO. I realize it's an 'edge up' on all the other vehicles in that class/price range, but what good is having an 'edge up' in a category that your customer base might not be concerned about.

 

I actually meant the 3.5 L V6, so I guess I got ahead of myself there . And yes, some people like the more effortless power of a V8, but some also like the free-revving nature of a good cammer V6. There's something to be said for an engine that keeps urging you to whip it harder, always promising you that the next 500 revs are going to even more enjoyable than the last 500

 

Ah. OK, I understand now... I guess I keep getting confused because Buick is comparing the Lucerne to an existing Lexus, and we keep mixing in a future car that is not here just yet.

I agree that the 3.5 from Lexus puts out impressive power for a V6.... personally, I'd still perfer the V8... that's a matter of preference, though, I agree.

 

Again, I see that comparision, but I don't really see how it relates to the comparison Buick is making to the 2006-in-the-showrooms-right-now-ES330...

Even when the new ES350 comes out, it will still be a few horses shy of the Northstar output (not that it really matters, it's basically be a wash)... but, unless Lexus has plans of lowering the MSRP, the V8 Lucerne will still have a hefty $3000+ pricing advantage.

 

'Point of interest' is that the Avalon is far more comparable on a variety of physical and logical levels than the ES. Their pricing is also more comparable.

 

It doesn't have much at all to do with the ES330, that's why I said 'if they continue to run this ad when the ES350 comes out...'

sheesh...

I'm also talking about end performance. The heavier and 1 gear shy Avalon already slightly outperforms the Northstar Lucerne in gas milage and acceleration. The ES, which is lighter and shorter and +1 gear over the Avalon, I can only assume, will do a bit better.

And I'm not sure about the base ES330 compared to the base CXL and how comparable their standard features list is, but I know the ES350 is going to have quite a few features to make the two even less comparable.

Again; I understand that from a marketing perspective it makes sense to stand next to the biggest guy on the totem poll that you can still look good next to (because of having a V8), but the Lucerne to me seems obviously cut out for the Avalon.

 

Hey - I'm just going by the whole ES330 comparison thing that was brought up in this thread and was advertised by Buick.

I agree that Avalon is probably a more apples to apples comparison. While it is listed at 268hp... it's still not a V8, and it's still a few horses shy of the Northstar.

 

You always have such insightful input Chuck. It's heart-warming.