I feel I can maybe shed a little light on the subject since I recently had a crash course on GM-101. Here's a quicky version (the total version might bore you to tears):

Bob Lutz is the "product czar". In short that means that any project has to clear muster with him. However, he is NOT the final word. Once a project clears him, it must go to the GM strategy board. This is the group that actually decides what gets approved and what doesn't. You simply wouldn't believe what has to be answered before the board approves a project. It's damn near frightening!

Chevrolet is the volume division of GM. As such, that unfortunately means that Chevrolet has to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Believe it or not, that is what Chevrolet has traditionally done! The problem is that today, that means FWD, Toyota-ish vehicles, where once upon a time it was RWD cars that could cheaply be made into low cost rockets.

Chevrolet is headed in the "cheap rocket" direction again, but unfortunately, that may mean more FWD cars made this way as opposed to RWD. Pontiac has traditionally been the division that had the heavy duty stuff. GTOs came out with big engines when Chevelles were still pushing small blocks. Trans Ams had SD 455s when the quickest Camaro was the Z28 with a 302. Pontiac has been THE excitement division, Chevrolet has been the division to take low cost cars & produce performance, usually, after Pontiac has a crack at it.

Performancewise, there is alot of good stuff comming down the line. Till then, Chevrolet is getting back to the basics. This means cars like the Impala & Malibu, which though are pretty unexciting to us (for the moment ) may in the very near future spawn some cars that will blow our socks off.

There are some things comming down the line. I suspect within the next 3-4 years, we will all be singing a different tune about GM in general........and Chevrolet in particular!

 

Hmmm Chevy you make some sence about the business but still Chevrolet is where the money is and I would get them right 1st then take my time with the others as needed. But who knows, maybe since they are doing it the other way around, they'll take their time with Chevy and do things right instead of rushed and half witted like the GTO.

Come on now Guion, no matter what Pontiac did Chevrolet still got the most attention and made many more memorable, classic, enthusiast, and popular cars. The TA might have had a 455, but the Camaro had a 396 also, not just a 302. Might I add that the F-Body was Chevy's car and idea to begin with and the Z28 is the Champion racer, not the TA.

 

Actually the cash cows are Chevrolet, Cadillac, and GM's trucks. GTO may have been rushed, but wasn't half witted. Pontiac was discontinuing the Grand Prix Coupe AND the Firebird. Short of bolting a supercharger to a Grand Am or Sunfire ( ) what creditable thing could Pontiac do to stir up excitement quickly? GTO is a great idea. Those that disagree simply won't buy one. But just for the record, there are quite a few people who already have deposits for these, so it's safe to say it won't be a failure in the marketplace.

As for Chevy's classics, no cars come to the market planned as classics. The last Caprice was roundly ridiculed as a whale and less flattering terms, yet the Impala SS of 94-97 is quickly becoming a classic. As you point out, Chevrolet made many memorable cars. But so has everyone else. Chevrolet's strength has always been volume. You can throw out Chevy's F-body idea, but someone else will throw out GTO. Another person will toss out Mustang (the car that really started the "pony car" market). Another will toss out the original Thunderbird. Another will toss out a Roadrunner or Barracuda.

Chevrolet doesn't have a lock on the classic car market by a long shot. It does have memorable cars, but Chevrolet has always been a volume division. Today's version of hot chevies would be fast versions of Cavaliers, Malibus & Impalas. Will they be classics?? Who would have ever thought the 1994 Impala SS would still be selling for original sticker price 9 years later in 2003?!

 

You can name many more classic/memorable Chevy's than Pontiacs. When you go to a car show, what is usually most of the cars there?? Chevrolets. They have the 50's Chevys (which is probably the most or 1 of the most popular cars ever for shows and collectors ever) Camaro's, Chevelle's, Nova's, Corvette's, B-Bodies, and others. I don't think there is another car line out there with so many popular cars in these categories. Not to mention SBC's and BBC's are pretty much THE CHOICE choice of engines for modding cars of all other makes, but you never see anything else in a Chevy.

 

I accept the fact that Chevy is GM's volume division, but does that mean that cars like the new Malibu need to be so boring to look at.

I don't care what Chevy's consumer clinics say....I'd bet that a better looking car will sell better than an ugly/boring car. They don't have to be flashy, just pleasing (or at least not painful) to look at. It doesn't cost anymore to build a good looking car, and I just can't believe that certain prospective buyers would be disuaded from buying a car just because it doesn't have boring styling.

And about that Z06...I love it! But the fact that Chevy sells the Z06 does not absolve Chevy of all other sins.

 

Am I the only one that thinks the new Malibu actually looks good? I mean, not every car can come out with 300+hp and still be affordable enough for Joe consumer. I think the new Malibu is lightyears ahead of the current offering. The exterior and interior both look better than Chevy customers have been accustomed to. I believe the new car is bigger, correct? Does anyone know what this car will start at ($)?? If I had a small family on a smaller budget I would definitely consider buying one. Hopefully the new Cavalier steps up in looks too....

-Rich

 

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...50764842IEtDLv

2nd Gen Everyone? Talk about retro....

 

The first gen Camaro was all Chevy becauseJohn Delorean's pet two seater got canned at the last minute. Pontiac basically had to take a basardized first gen, or nothing at all.

The second gen F-body was Pontiac ALL THE WAY. It was Pontiac's team that took the lead on everything with that chassis. Though the second generation Camaro was often considered an ugly duckling, the second gen Firebird was one of the most successful design and marketing programs ever and was GM's flagship in the late 1970's.

If anyone remembers those times, they weren't the best in the auto industry, and for a muscle car like the Firebird to have the appeal it did 10 years after it was released was phenominal. Also the 74 SD 455 is often considered the last real muscle car...

 

But even so I think it was executed pretty good, and with a few changes that I made in photoshop with that SS concept I think it would make a great camaro in my eyes... but I love the 70-73 camaros w the RS appearance package

 

Probably because they made 200% 300% as many Chevys as Pontiac to begin with. I agree with the Chevy = volume/bread&butter, Pontiac = performance/excitement theory. You line up a Z28 and a TA identically equipped and the TA is always more expensive. From 1967 on.

 

Yeah well I'd like to know how the people on that board can sleep at night, knowing that they approved a car based on some convoluted Theory Of Relativity formula, and not by using common sense and what drives passion inside them.

 

At least SSR has a V8 RWD, and I think they will add more power down the line. It has much better potential than did the prowler. IMO Belair is way nicer than T-bird. I must say I am biased, as I never liked the 55 T-birds the current car is based on!

 

GM's strategy board I imagine can sleep very well, and here's why:

Producing a new car model is all about money first & foremost. Not only the bottom line, but it's effect on the company, the company's resources, the factory workers, and a whole host of other issues. Going into one of those meetings to propose a new car as I said is seemingly an exercise on the hot seat because you have to present every single aspect to producing this car. A single presentation to the board usually lasts AT LEAST an entire day!

The short list of what needs to be covered:

* Why do we need it?
* How will it benefit the company?
* Where will it be made? (if it requires a new factory, be ready for an uphill battle on cost vs benefits and deals and incentives with local goverments)
* How will the factory be layed out?
* What will it cost to run this factory?
* What will be the break even point? (if it doesn't make money, you can pretty much give up at this point)
* How many people will be employed? (if it requires new labor, be ready to answer a long list of questions)
* What parts will you use from the corperate parts lists?
* What parts will have to be new or outsourced?
* Why will these parts be new or out sourced, and how much will it cost? (again, a whole list of questions if parts come from anywhere else but the parts bin)
* What legal issues do we need to be concerned with?

And the list goes on, and on, and on, and...

Now..... imagine doing this while using predicts of a world and a marketplace 2 to 4 years IN THE FUTURE!

The job of the board is to make darn sure the company doesn't make a mistake. To give you a small demonstration, look at the f-body. When that plant closed, it not only affected the workers of that plant, it affected the area it was made in. It also slowed down production at GM's engine plants. It also slowed down production at GM's electronic arm. It also affected suppliers. It also had ramifications with any agreements or incentives GM may have had with the goverments of the providence of Quebec and perhaps the Canadian goverment, it also means people who transported those cars were affected as well. So something as low in production as Camaro affected the entire company. Every one of these issues are taken up by the GM's Strategy Board.

If you look at Solstice, Bob Lutz couldn't snap his fingers and make it appear. The fact that even he mentioned the challenge was to make a business case for it, shows that not even he has complete power to produce a car, and even cars he champions can be rejected.

I know someone will point to the Aztek as evidence of the system gone wrong, but this would NOT be a good example of a problem with the board. The problem with the Aztek was with the person who cleared the design. The Aztek itself would have been a pretty big success with the right design. Obviously, someone above Wayne Cherry, and below GM's strategy board had no clue to car design. That's why GM now has Bob Lutz, and that's his role, to make sure only well designed cars make it to GM's strategy board.

Each component of GM has a purpose. Some areas simply don't require you to be a car expert, because someone else should be. GM's mistake was that where it should have had car people, it didn't. That mistake has been fixed, and as things work down the pipeline, you'll notice the difference.

And the good sleeping members of GM's Strategy Board will continue to sleep at night.

 

Pontiac went for more options and "luxury" than Chevrolet did. They can't be exactly the same. Although there has been a few times the Camaro was slightly more expensive or was close in price to the Firebird.

I see Chevrolet and Pontiac different I guess.

 

A Pontiac is nothing more than a Chevy built with lock washers. And a crappy engine. Pontiac engines= bearing eating junk.