i think ford doesn't have any more cookies in their cookie jar,
****me so hungy****(cookie-monster)

 

"There's no meaningful reason to hook your claw into a Firebird or a Camaro, simply because there's no Firebird or Camaro left in those vehicles. They became something else. And they became something else because, apparently, then the design teams got a hold of them, they thought that history started with them, instead of history starting with a nameplate."

 

The common denominator between all Camaro generations is PERFORMANCE. That is its heritage, that's all I expect.

 

I don't necessarily buy into the fact that you have to have 'x' amount of nameplate-specific cues to be successful. All you have to look at is the 2nd and 3rd Gen cars which really evolved away from the 1st Generation. The 4th I felt was a very natural progression from the 3rd and kept some of the things that made the 3rd successful. The problem was NOT just in the styling which I admit was not for everyone. The car's whole setup just did not appeal to people the same way it did in 1982. Low slung, low seating, etc. Camaro and Firebird, as great as I thought they were, just didn't adapt quite enough.

 

I like how F**d likes to talk **** like that, how about we do some, like how the other car was better and better performing like 3/4's or more of the time since the 66 Camaro introduction, and it beat them in sales enough too?! Besides the fact the GM took its own car out of the game like a buch of idiots, F**d had nothing to do with it.

But amazingly, I have to agree with him on some things. The 4th Gen strayed way too much from the looks of the Camaro lookswise ext. and int. And what is up with the sound of the LS1?? From the 1st Gen-Third Gen, the dash was similar, flat top with big sporty round gauges. 4th Gen, high dash with big crease (try seeing your hood) and regular looking gauges that no Camaro had before besides 90-92 cars being not entirely round and not apart from each other. IMO the dash would've looked better in black or at least a few other colors. Exterior, the 4th Gens body has nothing to do with a Camaro besides the dimensions which are 2nd Gen-like, it is completey round space-style with no lines, sharp creases, or flares. Instead there's body intergration and gaps all over the place because of it. The only thing that ties it in with a Camaro is the LT1's somewhat Third Gen-like front bumper, and the LS1's 2nd Gen-like hood. The 2nd Gen was very different looking than the 1st Gen, its size was different, body was pretty different, and the bumpers were different. But, body creases and small cues were kept. When the Third Gen came along, they mixed the 1st and 2nd Gen with some new and got the Third Gen, and it was the looks winner. Thirds are the closest Gen to the 1st in dimensions and weight. The same body creases were kept, it was given a hood that looks like a larger 1st Gen hood, subtle later 2nd Gen cues in the taillights, front and rear bumpers, and new designs that still looked "Camaro." In 85 a small redesign was done to both bumpers, GFX, hood, and taillights to give it a more aerodynamic/cooler look although the early 1's were really nice too but it still kept that look, even 91-92 when the GFX were changed and a different spoiler was added. (I don't like 91-92's much and the 90's dash either though) Then the 4th Gen comes along and changed way too much as described before. And the Firebird LOL, it's even more difficult to find previous Gen's in than the Camaro for both LT1's and LS1's besides the wierd shaped taillights. When I saw 4th's new in 93, I pretty much knew what was gonna go on, and it turns out I was right. Like the F**d dude said, u need cues and ties to what the car is. I mean look how excited every1 is over the new "GTO."

 

Just a couple of comments about John Coletti.....

I love hearing and reading his comments, he is the consummate car guy....he just happens to work for Ford.

And don't get so offended by what Coletti might say about Jon Moss...I understand that they are good friends.

 

ReznorZ28 - Thanks for taking the time to type all that in! I know that was a pain in the ****, but I appreciate it!

BANK ON IT. I've said before, Ford has the research to show that these cars WILL SELL. The concepts were done almost a year ago, and we all know they haven't been sitting in a dark room in a bank vault. They have been researching customer response and tweaking details. I can not cite another car company that puts as much effort into giving the loyals what they want (if possible) than Ford has done with the Mustang. Since the car almost single-handedly pulled Ford through the recession in the early '90s -with NO advertising- they have really given the car it's due. Ford sponsors Mustang shows, sends factory reps and concepts to regional and national events, always has free handouts/posters/surveys, utilizes MCA, NMRA, and other big Mustang clubs for ideas, etc. It's mind-boggling that a company would do this for a bunch of enthusiasts - lots of which admittedly won't buy new! KUDOS to them for it too.



I have no idea how he can say that factually. It may be his hunch? I too speculate that the "loss of identity" hurt Camaro and Firebird sales, but I can't prove it. I do think that he is on the right track in acknowledging the styling cues that set the model apart. As was said before, the Vette still has them too, and it's still alive and doing well... so for 40+ year-old-cars, the Mustang and Vette are about it, eh? Coincidence?


Hmmm... history beginning with the name... interesting concept.
This guy... MELIKES.

I recall a guy posting on this board a while back that said basically he wasn't so torn up about the Camaro being gone for himself... he already had one or two. What bugged him was that he couldn't buy a new one today, hold onto it for 16 years, and pass it down to his son like his dad did for him. He had a kid like 2 y/o, I beleive he said. This is where it hits home... the loyalty. I am SOOO glad to see Mays include the son/daughter thing in his equation, because I think it DEFINITELY accounts for lots of model loyalty and repeat buys, not to mention brand loyalty.

Some of you guys have been asking the question... "What do you do after retro?" THERE'S THE ANSWER.
I don't think you emulate a '67 this year, and redesign to emulate a '70 three years from now, etc. I think there are almost as many possibilities to modernize the '05 concept in a few years as any other car out there... but the next iteration will likely have side scoops, hood scoops, running horse in the grill, and 3-bar taillamps... IN SOME VARIED FORM OR SHAPE, just like the '05 and the '65 both do!

Overall, this interview sounds like Mays is rolling "right down my alley". I hope the guy does well for the Mustang. It certainly pleases me to hear that he has respect for it's past, and understands what it means to pass things on from generation to generation... in traits, cars, and relationships.

 

This is the comment that I have the biggest problem with.
Several years ago..when F-body sales started going south...anyone that you might talk to from GM would blame it on Camaro's "forward" styling.

What an easy whipping boy that was, "we are sooo leading edge that we went too far". I always saw the 4th gen as more retro in a early '80s sort of way.

Merely adding a steeply raked windshield and pointy nose does not in and of itself give you a modern design. Modern proportions is a good starting point for modern design.

J Mays may be baiting us and GM with that and other comments.

He and Ford do retro well. I'd bet he'd like to see the next Camaro be retro. Ford will always out-retro Chevy.

But if Camaro comes out with a forward thinking, beautifully proportioned modern design, (with some heritage cues)....Mustang and J Mays have something to worry about.

 

Ford stole this guy from VW. He was also stolen from Audi.
Obviously, money talks to this guy.
Who's to say Lutz and crew don't pop open the piggy bank and steal him from Ford?

Imagine, sometime in 2006 -
Headline-
It's back!
It has refound it's roots and is back with a vengeance and the looks to boot!
Your NEW '07 Camaro - designed by J Mays, the guy who did the awesome Mustang back in '05 and the NewBeetle in 2000!!!
Stylishly reminiscent of the '67, yet with the rake, stance, and attitude of the '70 Z/28. It's all here, waiting to come roaring back into life right in your own driveway! The all-new '07 Camaro.

Hmmm...
Is it REALLY impossible...

Just food for thought...

 

The ONLY reason people are excited is the F-body is gone.This is obvious,And it wouldnt be here if there "were" a F-body.
Anyone remember the GTO concept they had at the NAIAS back in 98-00?(I cant recall the year.GM knew the Camaro was going to die way back then.Tis wierd isnt it.

 

Actually GM has their own design guru, stolen from Chrysler (can't recall his name...Nesbitt?), who is/was neck deep in Camaro designs & Chevrolet heritage. He's the guy who had a hand in the PT Cruzer & some of Chrysler's other notable cars.

BTW, Audi & VW are the same company, along with Porsche.

 

It is possible. There are rumors that GM is considering snatching J Mays from Ford to replace Wayne Cherry as GM head of design when he retires.

 

If they were designing a new Camaro right now..Bryan Nesbitt would have a tremendous amount of influence over it's styling.

And what are his favorite Camaros? '67 and '68.

 

I like those 1st Gen years the best too. I hope he likes the Third's!!

 

I think GM should at least give john Cafaro a shot at it too...

He did the 93 Camaro and the 97 Corvette among other things....