Did the 4th Gen slowly price itself out of it's segment?
06-20-2002, 02:00 AM
#16
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I got my 2002 Z28 for 24,500. It stickered at 28,500, $2000 rebate and $2000 off of MSRP. Plus the dealer tossed in "tires for life." As long as I get my tires rotated at the dealer every 12K miles whenever I hit the treadwear indicators they'll put on a new set of Eagle GSC's! I was actually looking for a car for fewer options, but with the deal I got on mine I got it for a price in my budget.
Ed
------------------
2002 Z28 Black on Black
All options except traction control & ground effects
1982 sport coupe - Original V-6, now 350 crate motor - restoration under way!
Ed
------------------
2002 Z28 Black on Black
All options except traction control & ground effects
1982 sport coupe - Original V-6, now 350 crate motor - restoration under way!
06-20-2002, 08:22 AM
#17
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by jrp4uc:
You wouldn't pay more today for a pair of "Guess" jeans or "Starter" jacket than they cost when they came out in '93, why is the Camaro a steal when it goes up in price despite being outdated? $6k is a lot of money! And it's not like you're getting more for your money compared with 10 years ago--it's the same car! I'd like to see a statistic for repeat buyers of the same model--Camaro vs. Mustang. How often do you hear, "well, I thought about trading up to a new car, but it wasn't any different..."? And when sales start declining, I would think a more aggressive pricing approach would have been considered as a way to earn back some customers. A lot of cars may sell for close to $30k today, but there are an awful lot that are in this segment that are under $25k, and buyers are taking note.
Celica GT-S
Impreza WRX
Tiburon GT
Volkswagen GTI
RSX Type-S
Eclipse GT
Sentra SE-R SpecV
Mustang GT
And sure, a nearly base Z28 can be had for under $25k, but how often do you see these on dealer lots? The majority of cars listed come with more content at $23k than available on a $27k+ Camaro.
So to answer the question posed, yes I do think GM has alienated buyers with price. If you're going to push the same car year after year, you better find some reason for your loyal customers to come back for another helping. With no other performance offering even in the same ballpark (I'll overlook the Cavalier Z24
), is it any surprise were they find themselves?
---------------
-JERRY-
'02 Impreza WRX
'88 Fiero Formula
'90 Sunbird LE
[This message has been edited by jrp4uc (edited June 18, 2002).]</font>
You wouldn't pay more today for a pair of "Guess" jeans or "Starter" jacket than they cost when they came out in '93, why is the Camaro a steal when it goes up in price despite being outdated? $6k is a lot of money! And it's not like you're getting more for your money compared with 10 years ago--it's the same car! I'd like to see a statistic for repeat buyers of the same model--Camaro vs. Mustang. How often do you hear, "well, I thought about trading up to a new car, but it wasn't any different..."? And when sales start declining, I would think a more aggressive pricing approach would have been considered as a way to earn back some customers. A lot of cars may sell for close to $30k today, but there are an awful lot that are in this segment that are under $25k, and buyers are taking note.
Celica GT-S
Impreza WRX
Tiburon GT
Volkswagen GTI
RSX Type-S
Eclipse GT
Sentra SE-R SpecV
Mustang GT
And sure, a nearly base Z28 can be had for under $25k, but how often do you see these on dealer lots? The majority of cars listed come with more content at $23k than available on a $27k+ Camaro.
So to answer the question posed, yes I do think GM has alienated buyers with price. If you're going to push the same car year after year, you better find some reason for your loyal customers to come back for another helping. With no other performance offering even in the same ballpark (I'll overlook the Cavalier Z24
), is it any surprise were they find themselves?---------------
-JERRY-
'02 Impreza WRX
'88 Fiero Formula
'90 Sunbird LE
[This message has been edited by jrp4uc (edited June 18, 2002).]</font>
Also, every example of car you posted except for Mustang is being O-U-T-S-O-L-D by Camaro, so you just shot down the point you were trying to make. There is a newspaper called Automotive News that has vehicle production numbers. That might help somewhat. Also (again minus Mustang) all your examples were cheap FWD chassised cars. Not exactly
The one point I will agree wholeheartedly is the point about some of us not buying a new one because it's like the one we have. That is exactly the reason why I didn't buy a new one when I had the chance last winter.
06-20-2002, 08:56 AM
#18
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by guionM:
You don't include inflation do you? Also, $5,000 on an $18,000 car is a $500 per year average increase. The average paycheck has gone up more than that! This doesn't even include the cost increase of materials that go into making the car. I hate to say it, but if you can't afford the current base Z28, you definately wouldn't have afforded it in 1993, all things being equal for it's time.
Also, every example of car you posted except for Mustang is being O-U-T-S-O-L-D by Camaro, so you just shot down the point you were trying to make. There is a newspaper called Automotive News that has vehicle production numbers. That might help somewhat. Also (again minus Mustang) all your examples were cheap FWD chassised cars. Not exactly
The one point I will agree wholeheartedly is the point about some of us not buying a new one because it's like the one we have. That is exactly the reason why I didn't buy a new one when I had the chance last winter.</font>
You don't include inflation do you? Also, $5,000 on an $18,000 car is a $500 per year average increase. The average paycheck has gone up more than that! This doesn't even include the cost increase of materials that go into making the car. I hate to say it, but if you can't afford the current base Z28, you definately wouldn't have afforded it in 1993, all things being equal for it's time.
Also, every example of car you posted except for Mustang is being O-U-T-S-O-L-D by Camaro, so you just shot down the point you were trying to make. There is a newspaper called Automotive News that has vehicle production numbers. That might help somewhat. Also (again minus Mustang) all your examples were cheap FWD chassised cars. Not exactly
The one point I will agree wholeheartedly is the point about some of us not buying a new one because it's like the one we have. That is exactly the reason why I didn't buy a new one when I had the chance last winter.</font>
A base V6 Camaro started out at $12,999 in 93, where is it at now? The Camaro has increased much more rapidly than the rest of the auto indusrty.Also i don't think there are very many base cars made. Seems like all i come across are loaded with options------------------
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06-20-2002, 12:20 PM
#19
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Yup. If they'd lower them to the prices to where the people that really want them can afford, maybe those people would buy them?! 
[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited June 20, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited June 20, 2002).]
06-20-2002, 12:30 PM
#20
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You guys have to realize that a half-decently equiped 2002 Cavalier is stickering around the $15,000's...
You have to expect a base Camaro to come in over that...
The pricing on the Camaro is not that out of whack, except to 2 areas...
1) The V6 model needs to be lowered by about $1000 to compete with the Mustang price better.
2) The SS/WS6 package is way overpriced for what you actually get, IMO...
I think Z28 is pretty much right on the mark as is...
[This message has been edited by Darth Xed (edited June 20, 2002).]
You have to expect a base Camaro to come in over that...
The pricing on the Camaro is not that out of whack, except to 2 areas...
1) The V6 model needs to be lowered by about $1000 to compete with the Mustang price better.
2) The SS/WS6 package is way overpriced for what you actually get, IMO...
I think Z28 is pretty much right on the mark as is...
[This message has been edited by Darth Xed (edited June 20, 2002).]
06-20-2002, 01:10 PM
#21
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They are all overpriced in a way IMO. How they could make the Z28 the mid model is still beyond me, but the "SS" and WS6 are just way too much for what you get like you said. I hope they are all priced right in the 5th Gen and not too much for the people that really want to buy. And if they must keep the SS name, I'd like to see it as a more "luxorious" Camaro and the Z28 the Performance Camaro.
06-20-2002, 01:17 PM
#22
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Darth Xed:
You guys have to realize that a half-decently equiped 2002 Cavalier is stickering around the $15,000's...
You have to expect a base Camaro to come in over that...
[This message has been edited by Darth Xed (edited June 20, 2002).]</font>
You guys have to realize that a half-decently equiped 2002 Cavalier is stickering around the $15,000's...
You have to expect a base Camaro to come in over that...
[This message has been edited by Darth Xed (edited June 20, 2002).]</font>
06-20-2002, 01:30 PM
#23
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by formula79:
How so? A V6 camaro has less interior room, about the same quality and features and isn't much more powerful as a Cavalier.</font>
How so? A V6 camaro has less interior room, about the same quality and features and isn't much more powerful as a Cavalier.</font>
Say what you want about Camaro being rather spartan in design, but go drive a Cavalier... they are tin cans. I know. I've ridden in a lot of them, and driven many as well.
Cavalier is an entry level car. Period. Camaro is an entry level sports car...
Plus I'd say 200 hp vs 115 hp IS quite a difference in power. Heck, it's just about DOUBLE.
It's just the natural hierarchy of things.
[This message has been edited by Darth Xed (edited June 20, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by Darth Xed (edited June 20, 2002).]
06-20-2002, 01:42 PM
#24
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by IZ28:
And if they must keep the SS name, I'd like to see it as a more "luxorious" Camaro and the Z28 the Performance Camaro.</font>
And if they must keep the SS name, I'd like to see it as a more "luxorious" Camaro and the Z28 the Performance Camaro.</font>
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