Just kit me the other day. Since Bankruptcy, where GM closed 4 brands, Chrysler has added or will add three (RAM, Fiat, and Alfa).

I want to know what logic was followed to allow these two outcomes. I know this is beating a dead horse...but would letting Buick and GMC dealers continue to sell rebadged Holdens (full Commodore lineup) and maybe a sport compact have been any different than what Fiat is doing by adding it's brands? Everytime I drive by a Buick/GM dealer..all I can think of is how bland the lineup outside looks.

I think GM's plans for Buick would have actually worked better with a niche Pontiac. I mean for instance..say someone comes in, looks at a G8, decides he does not want RWD, or a V8..then notices the LaCrosse or Regal are not nearly the old Buicks he thought and buys one. It would also allow them to offer an agressive sport compact with styling outside what you can do with a Buick or Chevy.

I know..I am stupid for not letting Pontiac go...but whatever..does not hurt to look at the what ifs. Of all the brands killed, Pontiac was by far the biggest, and had the most history.

 

I miss Pontiac as well. In the midwest it accounted for 60% of BPGMC channel sales. It will be interesting to see what happens when GM goes public with the IPO. I agree Buick/GMC only doesnt cut it. Buick should have been sent packing to China.

 

I agree, but everyone we rush in and argue how Buick has great cars now, and people will start to realize making the brand appeal to younger import type buyers. It's the same line we were given with Saturn 3 years ago before that massive fail. Matter of fact..many of the cool..up coming Buicks were supposed to be Saturns like the Aura. While I don't want GM to fail, if Saturn can't turn around with it's awesome dealers, and traditionally younger buyers..I am not sure how Buick will.

One thing however I will say is the Buick will get some buyers by default. My wifes aunt..who I am guessing is in her 50's has always had Pontiac's. She recently bought a LaCrosse because they always buy GM vehicles (GM card) and she did not want a Chevy, or Cadillac so Buick was all that was left. The LaCrosse was probally more expensive then they liked, but they were not liking the deals, or availability on the Regal.

 

Buick is currently the oldest American car manufacturer (Pontiac was a few years older). What kind of "history" are you looking for? The Holden GTO rebadge? The holden G8 rebadge? The Vibe? Oh wait, that's a Toyota. Pontiac had essentially nothing to do with those cars. What was left in Pontiac's line up sucked, except for the Solstice, and there were no plans ever for another Firebird.

Considering GM now sells more cars in China than the US, and Buick is by far the greatest seller over there, the right decision was made.

Pontiac is dead and gone. Get over it (says another Pontiac owner/lover).

 

Is Chrysler who we really want to benchmark?

 

I thought getting rod of Pontiac was a mistake. Since it was, as pointed out, a lot of re-badged foreign models, GM really didn't have a lot of development capital directly tied up in it. Plus, it would have let GM keep Orion assembly running building the G6 and overflow for the Malibu, which would have solved the current LaCrosse capacity problem. Pontiac's future was definitely a niche brand. It just seemed like Obama was determined to have GM cut another brand and they had to sacrifice Pontiac.

Maybe Rheuss, who did a stint running Holden, will bring some special editions back in the future.

-Geoff

 

Buick might be the oldest...so was Olds. More people cared about Pontiac then Buick..plain and simple. I will agree that outside the G8 and GTO..and maybe Solstice..most of Pontiac's lineup sucked.

Buick is a big seller in China yes...but that does not mean it had to stay in the US. Opel is not sold in the US. Plus the Buick sold in China are often rather different than the NA Buicks. I think Buick/GMC dealers would have been better served by having Pontiac to cover the lower half of the price spectrum. As it stands now, Buick will do a complete 180 on it's image while covering a full lineup of price points and segments. It's a lot to ask for a brand who a few years ago had an average buyer age of 70 and only 3 models in the US.

 

I don't get your logic. Chrysler isn't adding Fiat and Alpha; they already existed. Furthermore as Fiat essentially bought Chrysler, they are the ones doing the addition.

 

Chevy can sell sporty Pontiac-like models easier than it can sell upscale image near-lux Buick-like cars...

IMO, that is the difference.

I hated seeing Pontiac go, but it made the most sense if you had to chop one or the other.

 

Exactly. Saying that Chrysler added 3 brands isn't even stretching facts, it's completely incorrect. Chrysler was bought and Ram was split from it. Whether it was split for marketing purposes or for possible separation/sale later may be up for debate.

 

Total worldwide brand count:

Chrysler: 10
Dodge
Chrysler
RAM
Fiat
Alfa
Abarth
Iveco
Lancia
Maserati
Ferrari

GM: 8
Chevrolet
Buick
GMC
Cadillac
Holden
Vauxhall
Opel
Daewoo

RAM is the only "new" brand -- the rest on both sides have been around for ages. RAM doesn't have any new models, and I think it was smart of Chrysler to differentiate the (relatively popular) RAM truck from Dodge's other (relatively crappy) offerings like Caliber, Journey, and Stratus.

 

I agree that Pontiac should have been kept a niche. Give them 2-3 RWD cars. Solstice, G8 coupe/sedan/ST, and Maybe a DeltaII coupe positioned under the Regal.

Chrysler's really only new brand is Ram. Which is kind of pointless since the Durango is still a Dodge and looks just like a Ram. Also there are no stand alone Ram dealers. I suspect it was done so the truck business could one day be sold off.

 

Shouldn't that be Fiat's name on top instead of Chrysler? Chrysler isn't the owner.

 

Chrysler is being used as a vehicle (no pun intended) to re-introduce Fiat and Alfa back to the US. Ram was created in case the whole thing implodes, then Fiat has a nice, tidy and marketable Ram and Jeep division to sell.

 

I don't get your logic either. Pontiac already existed too? The whole excuse for killing Pontiac is that the advertising, development, and distribution of a seperate line added cost. However Pontiac in a niche role is nothing more than rebadged Holdens, and maybe a rebadged Cruze. Chevy does not sell anything like the Commedore line, so it would be a good fit. Plus if Buick tanks, GM would have another brand to maybe revive. I fail to see how that costs any more to develop and support than setting up a whole new dealer network for Fiat and Alfa like Chrysler is doing. Seperating and marketing RAM as a second brand also will have some costs attached.