check out this garbage
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,597
From: Mack and Bewick
Re: check out this garbage
Originally Posted by Gold_Rush
I drive faster in my 190hp Jeep than i did in my 330+hp z28. Guess the author has a lead foot or something. And the majority of wreckless drivers and speeders that i have run into on the road are driving underpowered pos's. Just about any car today can reach triple digit speeds. The problem isn't hp but a lack of control on the drivers part. You want to reduce accidents and improve safety? Don't waste your time and money on restricting cars...spend that money and time on making better drivers out of the general public. A dumbass will get him/her-self and the people around them into real trouble regardless of the vehicles output.
We have one of the, if not the closest car to driver ratio in the world and yet our system of drivers training is a complete mess.
Sure one person in seven passenger vehicles is a problem as is 400hp sports cars in irresponsible hands... but MOST of the safety arguements against both of those would be null and void if drivers training was improved.
I was in a decent (free) program through my public highschool. And it has allowed me to be accident free for the past three years, however, im also well aware that im just now approaching a point where im a truly safe driver. Not to get off topic, but the feds need to take this out of states hands, then we'll have safer streets.
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Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,801
From: Nashville, TN
Re: check out this garbage
Originally Posted by Good Ph.D
THANK YOU.
We have one of the, if not the closest car to driver ratio in the world and yet our system of drivers training is a complete mess.
.
We have one of the, if not the closest car to driver ratio in the world and yet our system of drivers training is a complete mess.
.
It blows me away there are not MORE highway deaths due to incompetence, but the auto industry has responded to govt and public will will an incredible degree of safety engineered into the modern automobile.
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 578
From: N. Providence, RI
Re: check out this garbage
Originally Posted by Chris 96 WS6
I knew somebody would take exception, because there's always somebody here that thinks their opinion is relevant enough to make a mountain out of a proverbial mole hill that I create.
I am aware it is an editorial. But the popular media pushes it agenda through editorializing.
And for the record Communism is the greatest evil that has ever been perpetrated on Earth, as communist regimes are responsible for at least 30 million deaths worldwide, mostly their own people. Stalin alone presided over the murdering of 20 million Soviet citizens. This makes even Hitler, who was evil enough in his own right, look like a pansy in comparison. Just because we never fought an all-out war vs. communism doesn't make it any less of a monumental struggle for the will of mankind.
Communism is (was, as its basically intellectually dead outside of cloisered universities) a godless, hopeless, corruption of an idea of utopia that cannot ever actually be achieved, all while glorifying the society above individual identity and rights.
If you are a Communist, I sure feel pity for you.
Oh, wait....I can hear you typing your reply now. It'll go something like "communism in its truest form has never actually been implemented, and if it was then it would work." Riiiiiiight. It continues to be an ideology of dreamers and not doers, of rich trust fund kids and college professors, all guilty that they have it better than someone else. I suppose China and its rampant human rights abuses are your last best hope, or the hopelessly poor Cuba. I'm sure the Cubans prefer their destitute poverty over America, because at least they are all equally poor.
You just couldn't let my bastard comment go....that's precisely my point...there's always somebody in this forum that has a chip on his shoulder and thinks he has to respond to me and try to cut me down. I find it simultaneously entertaining and annoying. There's plenty of fellers in this forum that I like and enjoy reading, and there are a lot of people here that constantly annoy the crap out of me because they take exception to every little quip. I can always count on somebody thinking they have to take some sort of stand....
I am aware it is an editorial. But the popular media pushes it agenda through editorializing.
And for the record Communism is the greatest evil that has ever been perpetrated on Earth, as communist regimes are responsible for at least 30 million deaths worldwide, mostly their own people. Stalin alone presided over the murdering of 20 million Soviet citizens. This makes even Hitler, who was evil enough in his own right, look like a pansy in comparison. Just because we never fought an all-out war vs. communism doesn't make it any less of a monumental struggle for the will of mankind.
Communism is (was, as its basically intellectually dead outside of cloisered universities) a godless, hopeless, corruption of an idea of utopia that cannot ever actually be achieved, all while glorifying the society above individual identity and rights.
If you are a Communist, I sure feel pity for you.
Oh, wait....I can hear you typing your reply now. It'll go something like "communism in its truest form has never actually been implemented, and if it was then it would work." Riiiiiiight. It continues to be an ideology of dreamers and not doers, of rich trust fund kids and college professors, all guilty that they have it better than someone else. I suppose China and its rampant human rights abuses are your last best hope, or the hopelessly poor Cuba. I'm sure the Cubans prefer their destitute poverty over America, because at least they are all equally poor.
You just couldn't let my bastard comment go....that's precisely my point...there's always somebody in this forum that has a chip on his shoulder and thinks he has to respond to me and try to cut me down. I find it simultaneously entertaining and annoying. There's plenty of fellers in this forum that I like and enjoy reading, and there are a lot of people here that constantly annoy the crap out of me because they take exception to every little quip. I can always count on somebody thinking they have to take some sort of stand....
i blame no one for nothing...you made a tounge in cheek comment, i make one in return...and btw...thanks for the screed, but i neither need nor want your condescending pity
Last edited by Magnum Force; Jan 18, 2005 at 02:35 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,801
From: Nashville, TN
Re: check out this garbage
I saw a smilie in the first paragraph, I did not in the second.
I took exception to your being compelled for some god-only-knows reason to mention you are, in fact, a commie.
Your mentioning of it was apparently predicated on the assumption I actually care what you might be, which I don't. (Otherwise why waste the space to say it?)
My pity is given irrespective of your desire to accept it. Again, you are assuming I care. You are free to refuse it, but it is still there.
Back on topic............
You can kill yourself or anybody in a 100hp car just about as easily as a 500 hp car. We can plot HP vs MPG and find that its not perfect 1:1 relationship. The correlation would be mild to moderate at best. Pleny of hi-po cars acheiving good MPG through the use of modern combustion chamber designs and overdrive transmissions.
Obviously the article is driven more out of an agenda than any remote basis in fact, since the author chose not to do any research apparently (or conveniently chose not to cite any).
I took exception to your being compelled for some god-only-knows reason to mention you are, in fact, a commie.
Your mentioning of it was apparently predicated on the assumption I actually care what you might be, which I don't. (Otherwise why waste the space to say it?)
My pity is given irrespective of your desire to accept it. Again, you are assuming I care. You are free to refuse it, but it is still there.
Back on topic............
You can kill yourself or anybody in a 100hp car just about as easily as a 500 hp car. We can plot HP vs MPG and find that its not perfect 1:1 relationship. The correlation would be mild to moderate at best. Pleny of hi-po cars acheiving good MPG through the use of modern combustion chamber designs and overdrive transmissions.
Obviously the article is driven more out of an agenda than any remote basis in fact, since the author chose not to do any research apparently (or conveniently chose not to cite any).
Last edited by Chris 96 WS6; Jan 18, 2005 at 02:46 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,597
From: Mack and Bewick
Re: check out this garbage
Originally Posted by Chris 96 WS6
Your mentioning of it was apparently predicated on the assumption I actually care what you might be, which I don't. (Otherwise why waste the space to say it?)
My pity is given irrespective of your desire to accept it. Again, you are assuming I care. You are free to refuse it, but it is still there.
Back on topic............
My pity is given irrespective of your desire to accept it. Again, you are assuming I care. You are free to refuse it, but it is still there.
Back on topic............
Registered User
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,801
From: Nashville, TN
Re: check out this garbage
Originally Posted by Omegalock
All of this because somebody couldn't tell the other was joking...
Hmmm...let the needless internet muscle flexing contest begin!
Hmmm...let the needless internet muscle flexing contest begin!
NOW I'm kidding....
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 858
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Re: check out this garbage
Originally Posted by Good Ph.D
...but the feds need to take this out of states hands, then we'll have safer streets.
If you want something dont properly, do NOT give it to the government. Thats not their job.
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,472
From: South Bend, Indiana
Re: check out this garbage
Originally Posted by PacerX
Nope. Efficiency is efficiency. What's the fuel economy on cars at the top end of the efficiency scale??? That's right, it hasn't moved much in the past 20 years. Why? There's only so much energy in a gallon of gas. Changes in engine efficiency are much more difficult to come by than making power is. With power, you're just figuring out how to get more fuel and air into a motor in a given period of time- nobody EVER SAID YOU HAD TO USE MAXIMUM POWER EVERY TIME YOU ACCELERATE. With fuel economy you're trying to squeeze the last Joule of energy out of a given amount of gas, when you're already dealing with an extremely efficient system in the first place. Fuel economy is governed by the law of diminishing returns - power is just a function of ramming more air and fuel into a motor.
Originally Posted by PacerX
Won't have to, they'll learn the hard way the first time they try conclusions with a Suburban.
Ohhh big man is gunna start run'n over Smart's tuh learn 'em a lessons in fyziks. Believe me, with a hard shell those small Smart's have, I think you'll be one learning the hard way. Compare it to being hit by a stone.http://www.lastofthebreed.com/News/S...ges/Crash3.jpg
Originally Posted by PacerX
Quantity is not the issue here, that it does is. And since he's so damned concerned about baby seals and the rain forest he needs to yank out his radio... or he's a hypocrit.
Originally Posted by PacerX
WRONG. Cars use MUCH more energy than a home does. Go figure out how much energy it takes to run a car down the road at 70mph for an hour and then figure out how much energy your house uses per hour. The car uses VASTLY more.
Last edited by Meccadeth; Jan 19, 2005 at 12:06 AM.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,597
From: Mack and Bewick
Re: check out this garbage
Originally Posted by MissedShift
After the state government taking THREE WEEKS to get me scheduled for an appointment to RENEW my drivers license (not from making the appointment to going to it, just to get through on the phone and MAKE the appointment), I can venhemently oppose this. Privitize the whole godamn thing, and offer big tax breaks to the office that licenses the most safe drivers.
If you want something dont properly, do NOT give it to the government. Thats not their job.
If you want something dont properly, do NOT give it to the government. Thats not their job.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,817
From: O-Town
Re: check out this garbage
This guy has to drive an electic car. There is no way around it.
I would like to add a few large errors I see in his "assumptions".
SUV and Trucks with high hp motors are not a luxury, they are a necessity. These vehicals not only have more mass then cars, but also have worse aero. Bcuz of this you have to have more hp and more gear to over come this "luxury".
Ever-higher horsepower is the reason the overall fuel economy of new U.S. vehicles is now at its lowest since 1988. Engineers have steadily made automotive power trains more efficient--but nearly all the efficiency has gone into power, not MPG. Other things being equal, a one-third reduction in the horsepower of new vehicles would lead to roughly a one-third increase in their miles-per-gallon numbers. And a one-third increase in the MPG of new cars and SUVs is all that is required to eliminate petroleum imports from Persian Gulf states! The calculations are here.
While that is some great theory, it is just that....theory. I would like someone to show him the gas milage comparision between a 2002 LS1 Camaro and a 1988 5.7 Camaro. Last I checked, the LS1 got the better milage while making more power. A 1/3 decrease in power would make the sticker numbers better, but would not be pratical in real life as you would need to floor it more often to get to those highway speeds he talks about. If you want to increase milage, make the motor smaller, not less powerful.
Also, what does he consider high hp cars...300...400...500? Most cars that make that kind of power are either in truck/suvs or 35k+ cars. Next time your driving, take a look at the CARS around you and tell me how many make even 300hp. I will think you will have a hard time filling one hand.
I would like to add a few large errors I see in his "assumptions".
SUV and Trucks with high hp motors are not a luxury, they are a necessity. These vehicals not only have more mass then cars, but also have worse aero. Bcuz of this you have to have more hp and more gear to over come this "luxury".
Ever-higher horsepower is the reason the overall fuel economy of new U.S. vehicles is now at its lowest since 1988. Engineers have steadily made automotive power trains more efficient--but nearly all the efficiency has gone into power, not MPG. Other things being equal, a one-third reduction in the horsepower of new vehicles would lead to roughly a one-third increase in their miles-per-gallon numbers. And a one-third increase in the MPG of new cars and SUVs is all that is required to eliminate petroleum imports from Persian Gulf states! The calculations are here.
While that is some great theory, it is just that....theory. I would like someone to show him the gas milage comparision between a 2002 LS1 Camaro and a 1988 5.7 Camaro. Last I checked, the LS1 got the better milage while making more power. A 1/3 decrease in power would make the sticker numbers better, but would not be pratical in real life as you would need to floor it more often to get to those highway speeds he talks about. If you want to increase milage, make the motor smaller, not less powerful.
Also, what does he consider high hp cars...300...400...500? Most cars that make that kind of power are either in truck/suvs or 35k+ cars. Next time your driving, take a look at the CARS around you and tell me how many make even 300hp. I will think you will have a hard time filling one hand.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,979
Re: check out this garbage
Originally Posted by Meccadeth
Then why is it the cheapest vehicles on the road are the most fuel efficient and the most expensive ones are the most powerful?
Originally Posted by Meccadeth
It isn't easier to make more power,
Originally Posted by Meccadeth
There is no wall when it comes to fuel efficiency.
Originally Posted by Meccadeth
Inventions and innovations like hybrids, direct injection and DoD should have been in the market place a decade ago with new things coming in now.
Originally Posted by Meccadeth
Ohhh big man is gunna start run'n over Smart's tuh learn 'em a lessons in fyziks. Believe me, with a hard shell those small Smart's have, I think you'll be one learning the hard way. Compare it to being hit by a stone.http://www.lastofthebreed.com/News/S...ges/Crash3.jpg
The energy differential carried by a nearly 6000 lbs. Suburban into a collision like the frontal shown is on a whole order of magnitude greater than the car shown.
Originally Posted by Meccadeth
so then that would make you a hypocrit for not driving around a Hum-vee or Int'l CXT instead of a regular 2 1/2 ton SUV...after all, bigger is safer
Originally Posted by Meccadeth
That wasn't my point, my point was if he plugs in his electric car into his self sufficient home, then no coals are being wasted
Oh yeah... pull the interior carpet and sound deadening material while you're at it... it's just excess weight...
You don't need the clear coat on the paint either...
Last edited by PacerX; Jan 19, 2005 at 09:54 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,801
From: Nashville, TN
Re: check out this garbage
to PacerX. You are on a roll today man.While we are at it lets yank power steering too, adds too much weight and drag on the engine.
A/C? ditch it!
Anyone know where the Luddite convention is this year?