That was NOT my argument at all. My point was that if most automanufacturers would have put 1/3 more R&D into gas milage and taken 1/3 away from power (and I know most of these costs are alreaddy shared anyway) then we'd be a hell of a lot better off right now in terms of gas milage and still be nearly where we are for HP. Because as PacerX pointed out, many of the same things that are good for efficiency are good for output too. Many of the things coming out to help fuel milage today should have been out years ago. Whats even more sad is that they're only using most of these gizmo's so they can make cars even more powerful and taking that milage they're saving, away again.

The 3800 brings up a whole different scenario in terms of an under developed V6 (although a bullet proof engine, its way past its time) and an extremely advanced (although simple design) V8. GM did the impossible making a V8 that is as stingy on fuel as many 4 cylinders while being more powerful than most V8's out on the market.

 

Good points. Socialist like him are the " Don't confuse us with the facts " type people. His goal is to enforce his message and willpower through coercion, just like all socialists. People like him will get want they want through government legislation, not by the will of the people. If there were not a market for these cars then they would not be built. But since the government has forced the auto makers to increase weight of vehicle's it is just common snese that they need more HP to carry the extra weight.

 

I wanted to say that the SAE supermileage competitors have broken the 1000 mpg barrier and even 1500 mpg over a 9.6 mile course.

 

yea.. in a 200 lb (or kg?) car..

 

while going down hill with the wind idling the motor.......

 

Guess I really started something with this thread,huh?

 

Yeah I was just pointing this out because someone had mentioned it earlier and I wanted them to provide me with some more info. I was just saying I found some records of the competition.

The engine is air cooled, four cycle, with a 2.61kw (3.5 horsepower) rating at 3600 rpm. Drivers must weigh at least 130 lbs or weights are added to bring the total up to 130lbs (for the driver)I'm not sure how eavy the cars are. The competition is not down hill or with the wind. Its actually a little track that the teams compete on.

 

This is about as bad as the McDonalds thing. GOD DAMMIT if I want to eat a supersize french fry and increase my cholesteral then dammit I will. I don't need some complaining fat bitches that can't stop feeding their own faces ruining it for all of us.

Same thing applies here. Govt needs to stay out of some things, fuel economy = fine, hp limiter = stupid as long as it meets federal emmisions. And for high horsepower causing fatalities, ****. I've been in Germany on the AUTOBAHN (not driving myself, riding) and people fly by you doing 100-140mph in Porches, Beamers, whatnot. They don't have problems and you know why, they KNOW HOW TO DRIVE. They don't drive like the douche bag redneck ego driven Americans. They are smart enough not to drive 45mph in the fast lane, here sadly I'm beginning to think the right lane is the fast lane. Hell, there's more slow people in the left.

And as far as the redneck comment, I'm a farmer, NOT a redneck. Thank you and goodbye

 

 

Both my parents drive SUVs. My dad drives an '01 Tahoe which is supercharged. Why? He has a 42' Scarab thats not going to tow itself, a 6 place enclosed snowmobile trailor that even the stock 5.3L cant handle. My mom has an '04 Highlander, why? she has two daighters not old enough to drive themselves, she also does landscaping on the side and needs cargo room, she also just likes the build quality and safety, sure its 3.0L VVTi V6 gets great gas milage, but its an SUV so its evil. We live in a typical neighborhood, in typical suburbia, with out typical conservative neighbors also with trucks and SUV's that apparently we shouldn't have, so mr liberal feels he needs to protect us from ourselves. No matter that we're not in any significant danger to begin with. So much for land of the free. The whole "Oh dependance on foreign oil, we need to end it" argument is a complete joke to anyone who actually thinks about it for more than 2 seconds. A) They dont mean it as proven by thier resistance to take advantage of domestic oil reserves B) Theres PLENTLY of oil left to last us a LOOOOOONG time over seas so its not like the Saudis will suddenly run out in 20 years C) If its cheaper to buy forgeing oil why not? WHy fix something thats not broken D) somewhat off topic but FYI blood for oil in Iraq? ~4% of your gas is Iraqi, shut up

I did a research project for my wonderfully tree hugging professor last semester about what a complete joke the 55mph national speed limit is/was. So I know a little bit about safety and what a complete fallacy the hp/death argument is. the 55mph limit was pushed through by moronic hippies that dont like anyone having fun, it saved virtually no fuel (improved consumption by a fraction of a percent, which was thier main argument for implementing it) and after the crisis was over and everyone realized it did nothing, they said "ohh if you make the limits 75mph again everyone will die!! Well the limits eventually went back up and the deaths per mile continued to decrease. Same concept applies here. Whether we have 300hp or 500hp the safety and economy trends will continue virtualy uneffected. Not that any of this logic will prevail as I do see some BS legislation being put forth to reduce HP in the future as these super small special interest groups always seem to accomplish. No matter what these people will never be satisfied. I think i heard it said best put like this "If George Bush created a vaccine for AIDS, the liberals would attack him for not caring about those already afflicted with the virus" No matter what they wont stop, they wont be happy until everything is controlled how they se fit.

Last time I checked Freedom meant being free, not doing whatever you want so long as its ok with a select extreme minority and I emphasize EXTREME. I go to Kent State ok, I knwo something about Liberals, and even they scowl at most of these people as they are passing out thier propaganda with thier little red barets.

This may not have been my most coherent post ever so I apologize.