External changes are pretty minor (for the better, IMO), but there's a major update to the interior.

 

They had the 2010 Mustang on a platform, so I couldn't sit in it; personally, I like the exterior update.

I drove a Challenger RT and while I really like most everything cosmetic, I was underwhelmed (there's that word again) by how it drove. I guess what I really want is a Challenger that drives like a G8 GT. Maybe I should wait and drive a 2010 Mustang.

 

I want to go on record with one statement only....

Disregarding any personal opinions on the actual cars themselves, what you saw in February was a release of pent-up buying anxiety for Mopar collectors and fans that have been waiting for the Challenger since late 2006. I do not think there is a vast, unending market for the car, nor do I think it will sustain these levels through the summer, much less the remainder of the year. There will be the big push after initial release (which we are seeing now), then the peak (late spring or early summer IMO), and then a rapid drop in sales as the market's demand is satisfied.

Lastly, I don't think there is NEARLY the demand for the Challenger as there is for Mustang and Camaro. These two are sought after by everything from teenagers to 80-somethings, boys, girls, and everything in between it all. Challenger will have to harken back to those who know/knew of them from 40 years ago, and they were more "musclecar" than "daily-car" back then.

It will be a hard sell to maintain long-term.
'10 Camaro and '10 Mustang are going to clobber the Challenger in a few months.
My .02.

 

The moon & planets must be aligning in a rare configuation because for the 1st time ever, I'm going to have to disagree with you.


But as always, I'll list why.

First,
the people who are buying the SRT8s may be Mopar fans and pent up demand, but that doesn't in any way account for what has happened to Challenger sales since the full line came out. What's happening according to what I've seen so far is that the Challenger is attracting quite a few new customers to the brand that weren't considering Chrysler before. Sure, they're getting some spillover from those who loved their 300 or Charger and want to add a coupe to their garage. But the huge majority of Challenger buyers are younger than even me... and I wasn't old enough to own a Challenger... let alone know what one was when it was new.

Second,
this is wintertime. This is when car sales are traditionally the lowest, between Christmas and early spring. The northeast is still covered in snow in some places, as is the mountains out here in the west. If anything, Challenger sales should increase once the snow melts and the buying season starts heating up.

Third,
Alot if not most people suspect Chrysler will go under. Although March 31st we'll know for sure, Chrysler has already shown signs of life & if they clear the hurdle and gain loans and hook up with Fiat (or even if they don't... they still have Nissan), confidence in Chrysler's future will go up, and sales should increase again... as much as it can in a recession.

Fourth,
Chrysler has the only big coupe in the country (save something with a 3 point star or the letters BMW somewhere on it). That in itself is getting alot of attention. Chrysler is selling a surprising amount of V6 Challengers, meaning regualr people are buying them. Given that the Monte Carlo settled into a rate of 35-45K per year it's last few years on the market (and it was America's only big coupe at the time), it's perfectly plausable that the Challenger will settle into a steady rate of sales that will still run at least 30K per year.

Fifth,
and finally, think of how many people want to buy a car, but aren't because of the economy. If the economy improves by years end, as seems to be the consensus, the Challenger (like every other car) should see a notable increase of sales both from new buyers and new car pent up demand.


All cars go through a life cycle. But I remember when the PT Cruiser and the new Beetle came out. Both sold something like double their initial projections. Plenty of people proclaimed that it was just nothing but a fad, that would die once a group got their fill.

What happened?

The PT settled into down to it's original projected sales levels 4 years later, and only just recently (10 years later!) finally is going out of production, meanwhile the Beetle is still a solid seller for Volkswagen.

No one is saying that Chrysler is going to sell as many Challengers as Mustangs or Camaros. Chrysler didn't even make that estimate back when things were great and they were making the business case.

The measurement of the Challenger's success is how well it measures up to it's original business plan. Chrysler planned to make between 20K and 35K per year for just 3 years (a limited timeframe much like GM's Pontiac GTO plans).

If the Challenger is still here in year 4, or sells at expectations or better, then the car is a big success. If Chrysler yanks it before September 2011, or it's sales fall below 25K during any year, then it's a failue.

But then again....

..... the Dodge Viper started off as a 3-4 year, limited production car too.....

..... and it's going on it's 17th year!

 

there are two most factors in the success of these kinds of cars. first is design, and in this Camaro is as fresh and as good looking [moreso even]
than any car in the sub$50k category. there are a lot of good looking cars in that range, and the camaro is easily as appealing as the best of them [370z, is350, g37, to name a few]. so it competes evenly. on top of that the essentials of the camaro are right, it's a great car underneath it all. the challenger's design is heavy handed, cartoonish [at the rear], and not good in the context of today's design. it's not the retro look, but the combination of 2 door retro design with the heavy proportions that ruin its longevity and instant appeal. i can see how fans of old school muscle would appreciate its overt muscularity and nod to the past, however.

the second factor is brand recognition. challenger is not sought after like a camaro. challenger is not even that well known; chrysler has a bad rep, and i don't know how many fans of challenger are not also fans of camaro and more likely to choose camaro.combine the camaro brand with this killer design and we have a recipe for a big, enduring success.

 

Just speaking for myself, I could easily see myself getting a V6 Camaro, hands down. It's perhaps the closest thing to the spirit of the 5.0 Mustang of anything with 4 wheels. It's quick, fast, cheap, offers outstanding bang for the buck, & has the bonus of great fuel economy.

If I were to go for a V8, I'd be torn between the Challenger R/T and the Camaro SS. The Camaro has the edge in power, but the Challenger has it in room and apparently comfort as well... and it's power disadvantage isn't big enough to be an issue, it's plenty quick and powerful in it's own right. The down side is the R/T is speed governed, something I grossly dislike unless we're talking no less than 145... I actually have driven that fast more regularly than I'd like to admit, and in this side of the country, there's road & space to do it.

For me, there's just something intriguing about a big, muscular & powerful, but comfortable coupe, even at the expense of a smaller, quicker pony car.

I'm not really an old school Challenger fan, and I've never owned a Chrysler in my life.

 

I'm cool with it!
Every coin has two sides, you just have to pick one and ride with it.

I don't disagree with anything you wrote in any normal year, but we are NOT in an typical year.

I don't think you are going to see ANY car sales go bananas this spring and summer (save for the release of the Camaro) - even with cash on the hood. We were just told 2 days ago that we are getting a salary cut, and losing company-match in he 401K here where I work, and we have not borrowed a dime from any bank to date. We are healthy, but our business is WAY off. I got to see the projections for US Automotive sales through 2009... and we STILL made drastic cuts just this week. We are off almost 60% YTD, and trends are still down, despite quoting a lot of new business coming from new product releases and replacement business from shops gone bust.
Need I say more?

I'd love to share the projections we saw, but it is confidential.
Let's just say this... our company will not bid on new business or sell to another (one specific) company unless we get AT LEAST a 35% margin on the product - minimum. We also will not run above a certain level of inventory for kanban for a few companies because of the risk of inventory on the shelves if they file BK11 or worse. This pertains to just specific companies... the rest we are going after like gangbusters. At the risk of exposure, all I can say is the maker of the Challeger is not one of the companies deemed worth "going gangbusters" after. And my company is not the only one in this position.
Need I say more?

I know what many business plans are for specific models because they are directly related to the annual volumes they ask us to quote, then subsequently make. And I'm here to tell you, the insiders at the big three have all given us their latest forcast for going into 2nd quarter (which starts in 2 weeks). We are starting the 2nd quarter with a 2-week shutdown for our hourly folks.
Again, need I say more?

And YES, we are making parts for the car(s) in question directly.

I think the sales are great, and Chrysler deserves a pat on the back for doing a nice car and hitting the timing just right, but there are MANY, many very unusual conditions that are pandering to the recent success of the Challenger, and I am simply not convinced that these sales levels will be sustained... and I'm in the company of some of the best schedulers and planners in the automotive industry... where I work, it's our very livlihood on the line with an errant bet on things like this. If you wanna know more about "my opinion" privately - you know how to get me.

Regardless, we're both on record now, so let's go get a cold one and sit back for a few months and see what happens!
We can talk about the AIG folks while we nurse a few cold ones down.

 

Don't get me started with AIG!

BTW, I don't know about the rest of the country, but any one in California intrested in getting a Challenger, we may be having a hard time.

I've been running around dealers in the area eager to see if any have the new Camaro or Mustang in, so naturally I've been also stopping in nearby Dodge dealers to check on a new Challenger.

Guess what.

They are hard to find.... and the few Challengers that a couple of dealers are lucky to have, they are marking them up.

Seems Chrysler itself is causing a serious shortage of Dodge Challengers, and forcing dealers to purchase a certain number of Chargers and other cars in order to get a Challenger.

In other words, Chrysler is using the Challenger to force dealers to purchase other cars instead of making enough Challengers to meet demand!

I give GM a heap of credit on this: They intend to make as many Camaros as they can sell, not use it as a weapon to force Chevrolet dealers to buy more Impalas and Malibus.

I thought Chrysler got rid of this strongarm tactic when Joe Eberhardt left Chrysler marketing!

 

There are 3-4 at the dealer down the street from me. If you want info, PM me.

 

There is no competition between the '09 GT and the '09 RT.

The Challenger looks better and is faster, and for gearheads who care gets a TR-6060 basically straight out of a Viper.

When the '10 GT is out on lots in a couple of months, sales oughtta even up. I'm not even sure which car I'd pick were I in the market.


But to state it again. The 2009 Challenger RT kicks the sh*t out of 2009 stang in every measurable except perhaps handling. And that's why the numbers are the way they are.

 

Actually, I don't agree with that........... and historically, sales don't either.

The better performing car is not necessarily the better selling car. To enthusiasts................ probably a bit more, but to the general public, not at all.

If I had a choice between a 2009 Challenger RT, and a 2009 Mustang GT, I would still buy the Mustang. The Challenger is too big for me. After seeing quite a few on the road, I think they are rather bland looking (short of the SRT8). I know, all too well, about Chryslers reliability/quality, so you could only get me to go there if I was so in love with the product, that I just couldn't help myself. Finally, the Mustang aftermarket is SO huge, that I can personalize my Mustang into anything I want it to be............... which is a HUGE plus.

That said, I agree with Proud on this one................. and think it is pent up demand. I also think that you are getting some buyers banking on Chrysler going out of business, and making their cars "collectors items," much sooner.

 

Sure kicks the s**t out of it in size and weight - and those are indeed "measurables" like you said.

If you want to wager me which one sells more units by December... bring the money.


...and by all means - the faster one is always the best car, and the one that will outsell everything slower. We've proved that time and time again.

 

So there couldn't be any other reason why someone would buy a Challenger over an '09 Mustang? Current sales are saying otherwise, and the numbers are even more remarkable considering Challengers seem to be in short supply while outgoing '09 Mustangs are plentiful and surely have hefty discounts available.

I'm about 90% sure I'd take a '10 Mustang GT over a Challenger RT but if we're talking '09 Mustang then I would not even bother visiting the Ford dealership. As for the Camaro, it's dash alone will cause me to test drive the Mustang (a 5.0L 6-speed version, anyway) before making any decisions. Lucky for me the economy will have to improve significantly before I consider buying any of these cars, so it looks like I'll have a good long time to think about it.

 

And it's faster. Ooops.


If Ford didn't have an all new 2010 coming out in a month I'd take your easy money.


Yup it's faster. It's bigger, better looking AND FASTER.





BTW it's faster.

 

Yeah Mrs "nuthin is better than ford".

Sure. whatever.