Keep in mind too that not all unions take this same stance. At my company, several of the major unions were asked to take concessions to avert a certain bankrupcy filing. It was a situation where you were going to lose either way, but by playing ball, you had some measure of control over the plan. One of our competitors went the other route, and has been in bankruptcy nearly 3 years, and just lost a couple of hundred million dollars in the 2nd quarter AFTER slashing all the unions pay, benefits, and jobs. As was said above, the membership authorizing a strike is nothing more than posturing. It is a common and expected tactic among unions prior to or during negotiations. I would stop short of saying its nothing to worry about, but at the same time, it's not suprising to folks who work in this kind of environment.

 

Of course it was a PR move! That's the entire point.

When Lee Iaaccoa 1st went to Chrysler, he worked for $1 per year. Of course, he instead had stock options that he couldn't cash in for a year or 2 (and made serious bank when he did), & had a pretty healthy expense account, but it was still enough to get Chrysler's unions to agree to some amazing concessions to save the company.

That's what GM needs to blunt things. Don't underestimate the power of symbolism. We're dumb Americans. We don't read between the lines, or dig deep. That's TV's job.

 

Our CEO did that too. Then on the day of the concessions vote, authorized 17 million dollars in bonuses to top management. Smart man .

 

Ah ok, then I misunderstood you. Of course if GM goes under, Lutz just goes on and retires, or gets a new job like everyone else. FoMoCo goes under, and Mr. Ford's future plans change substantially.

I'm in college, I know exactly how dumb "we" all are. It's frightening in fact.

 

Several months ago G.M. said that if the unions did not concede the things that they wanted (healthcare) and if they tried to strike they would take drastic measures and go with "other avenues". I don't expect G.M. to take this lying down.

 

no certainly not, GM is awake, i'm not sure where it happened but someone DID wake the sleeping giant. and I think its been slowly getting onto its feet for a while now, and has known things arent okay for the last 10-15 years or so, just nothing has really been done about it.

Can Unions compete for eachother? Could another union try to get the contract instead of UAW? someone like teamsters or whatever?

And what about the health care thing... couldnt the companys compete for GM's signature? I mean GM is the largest single purchaser of health insurance. shouldnt the major insurers work hard to get the best price for the General?

And if the General filled Chapter 11, how much of a feild day would the news casters have with that? Would it be worth the breakoff of the union?

 

While I am not in a Union my mother is a steel worker, actually she helped out a friend when the Union 'striked' with no contract, he job was to help find replacement workers (which she did a great job on). Then when the union begged to come back she kept her job and kept her seniority. I understand Unions just as much as the next guy (grandad was a UAW worker for a while), but that doesn't mean I agree with them. BTW Toyota plant about 80 miles from me isn't union and it doesn't have any problem producing cars.

 

They worked to get there? So why is quality not top notch? It's one thing if they were turning out outstanding product that was selling like hotcakes. The reality is that they are not and need to expect to be compensated as such.

 

I agree, Bill does have a need to make sure the company does well. I also believe alot of these companies, have the problem of too many chiefs, and not enough indians. That's a whole nother can of worms. It's your statement about us ALL being dumb, that strikes me! Normally I might agree with that. Recognizing that fact is the first step. I think this is another of those things the press has filled our heads with, me included. So I would put it another way. The elites in the press, as well as some college professors like to suck up to the Euro's, what better way than to call us(Americans) dumb! I would say Americans are more smart than dumb. No one can know everything! Everyone has a certain area of expertise. I also share the view that it's a bit of posturing, but still not a good sign. I think Guy's own post proves, that they have some of us believing we're dumb. I don't agree, and kinda resent it, being a proud American that I am. Actually, I think we're just humans with emotions, missing a certain car, so sometimes WE (myself included), jump to conclusions! We Americans have made some great strides for human kind, and will continue to, so it's very easy for ppl around the world to resent that, and in turn write us off as dumb. I strongly disagree, and think that dumb is a relative term! I also agree with quite a few of the last posts made. falchuck= Pay ppl what they are worth! And yeah what a field day the press would have if GM filed you know what(I can't even think it), it would be the culmination of years of "hard" reporting come to fruition. I'll stop now, as you all know my feelings on the press.

 

How do the benefits and heathcare of those folks that work at Toyota compare to GM benefits and healthcare?

 

At the chiropractic office I work we have Ford UAW workers as patients and they have KPPA or HMO plans which mean at the most a $10 specialist copay (usually $35 copay from same insuance carrier) some have NO copay. I haven't dealth with any Toyota workers, like I said it is quite a ways away from Louisville.

 

I wonder how the unions feel about announcements like these:

Ford to fire 400 white collar workers as part of cost cutting plan.

 

Enough to keep them happy and probably more on par with what a "Factory Worker" is actually worth. I would say it's not too far off of the norm for a UAW worker in pay though.

The problem is this though. At Toyota they have something called "Job Performance Reviews." Which means if you f--- up, you get demoted or fired.

At the UAW if you f--- up, you get a raise. The protection of the UAW employees is more of a cripple in my opinion then the actual pay.

 

how would someone change either side?

to cripple toyota or to help GM?

 

The UAW had protected poor performing workers their entire existance! A about 10 years ago there was a story in a national newspaper about a Janitor that worked at Ford (I think). He was in his late 50's and spent a large part of his day sitting in a closet watching TV and listening to a Radio. He had been written up many times and eventually fired. The union forced them to bring him back. They had to offer him early retirement to get rid of him. At the time he was making $19 an hour. While thats not that much, it's a lot for a Janitor.

Everyone else in this country has to perform or lose their job, the UAW agreements are always one sided as they dont guarantee any level of quality or quantity of production. If they are going to behave as contrators they should be saddled with the same quota's as contractors.