Car and Driver's 10 Best........What a Joke.
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From: South Bend, Indiana
Re: Car and Driver's 10 Best........What a Joke.
Originally Posted by redzed
The STS and CTS are far too close together in size, the pricing of V6 models overlaps to much and both are tremendously overpriced....
For this thread, my criticism was directed solely at the Acura RL. Other than Lexus-like reliability, I don't see what this car offers. The new car offers straight line acceleration that matches the Northstar equipped STS - the previous generation 1998 STS. Then there's the stupidly named SH-AWD ("Super Handling"
) that represents a very clever system to simulate rear wheel drive handling. Most companies have decide that rear wheel drive handling is best acheived with a rear wheel drive chassis. You have to wonder what exactly is going wrong at Honda?
As it is, the Acura RL seems like very unimpressive place to put $50K. To put it another way, it would be my very last choice in the entire Luxury segment.
For this thread, my criticism was directed solely at the Acura RL. Other than Lexus-like reliability, I don't see what this car offers. The new car offers straight line acceleration that matches the Northstar equipped STS - the previous generation 1998 STS. Then there's the stupidly named SH-AWD ("Super Handling"
) that represents a very clever system to simulate rear wheel drive handling. Most companies have decide that rear wheel drive handling is best acheived with a rear wheel drive chassis. You have to wonder what exactly is going wrong at Honda? As it is, the Acura RL seems like very unimpressive place to put $50K. To put it another way, it would be my very last choice in the entire Luxury segment.
Go drive one, then come back to this thread.
Your criticism was directed at the Acura RL and in favor of the STS, saying that it doesn't look like another random car in GMs line-up
I could say the Acura RL doesn't look like a Honda Insight, but what point am I proving?The RL is one of the top overall cars on the market right now. It is hardly "boring" by any means. It is exciting, right around the middle of its class in power, stunning looks IMHO, and plush as can be for the price. Its drop dead gorgeous interior is probably the best cabin I've ever sat in. It deserves its place on the list.
Last edited by Meccadeth; Dec 14, 2004 at 04:10 PM.
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From: Jersey Shore
Re: Car and Driver's 10 Best........What a Joke.
Originally Posted by muckz
I do not know enough about STS, but RL seems to be a sophisticated piece of machinery with AWD. Sophisticated does not equal better, but they have put a lot of money into that car. It does cost $70,000 CDN, way too much.
As for Pontiac topping TSX? I drove both G6 GT and TSX... and Pontiac has a long way to go. Adding a 6-speed would be most welcome, but the two cars have such different responses and feels. Not to mention that G6's interior plastics are still Honda's 90's. I am not really biased, and I am probably one of the more open-minded members here, but giving credit where it's due is still fine in my books.
As for Pontiac topping TSX? I drove both G6 GT and TSX... and Pontiac has a long way to go. Adding a 6-speed would be most welcome, but the two cars have such different responses and feels. Not to mention that G6's interior plastics are still Honda's 90's. I am not really biased, and I am probably one of the more open-minded members here, but giving credit where it's due is still fine in my books.
The STS also has a high tech AWD system, as well as one of the best, if not the best V8 engines in its class. The STS's design is much nicer and doesnt blend in like the RL does. Something that luxury cars cannot afford to do. Look at the VW Phaeton.
STS's interior is also top notch, and its driving dynamics are fantastic. Great power from V6 or V8 with plenty of power.
As for the G6 vs TSX, I said it COULD be a good fight if Pontiac fixed a lot with teh car, such as steering and added some "gotta have" items like nav, 6spd auto, HID's, and perhaps a little revison of the interior. Quality of plastics inside the G6 fine, its design and lay out that might need to be changed.
As for a good car, were is teh Saab 9-3? Turbo 4cyl making more power, 6spd manual, HID's, nav, sharp handling, and 5 star side and front crash ratings, first car EVER to do that.
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Re: Car and Driver's 10 Best........What a Joke.
Originally Posted by Big Als Z
Well, then Pontiac needs to retune the steering to be spot on. Even BMW got ripped for the 7 and 5 series steering. Numb and dull is all I kept reading, and thats from BMW.
When the G6 GTP arrives with hydraulic power rack, I will bet you that more people will prefer it over the G6's GT and base steering. Im glad for Audi, but Audi isnt Pontiac.
I hope to see cars like the Solstice and Cobalt enter the list next year. Id also like STS make its way onto the list. Also, the 05 GTO SHOULD have made it on the list, as its is a better performing car. I mean, if they can overlook the how the G35 is cheaper then the 3 series, yet teh 3 is still on the list, they can overlook the GTO's price to the Mustang.
When the G6 GTP arrives with hydraulic power rack, I will bet you that more people will prefer it over the G6's GT and base steering. Im glad for Audi, but Audi isnt Pontiac.
I hope to see cars like the Solstice and Cobalt enter the list next year. Id also like STS make its way onto the list. Also, the 05 GTO SHOULD have made it on the list, as its is a better performing car. I mean, if they can overlook the how the G35 is cheaper then the 3 series, yet teh 3 is still on the list, they can overlook the GTO's price to the Mustang.
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From: South Bend, Indiana
Re: Car and Driver's 10 Best........What a Joke.
Originally Posted by Big Als Z
The STS's design is much nicer and doesnt blend in like the RL does. Something that luxury cars cannot afford to do.
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From: Jersey Shore
Re: Car and Driver's 10 Best........What a Joke.
Originally Posted by WERM
They said elsewhere in the Magazine that the GTO could not have made the list because Pontiac could not get them an '05 GTO in time for their 10-Best competition.
As for ths STS blending in....I doubt that as no new Caddy "blends in" either for good or bad. Its styling is deffinatly unique to Caddy. While it is my opinion on style, as far as blending in, the STS is far from doing that.
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Re: Car and Driver's 10 Best........What a Joke.
Originally Posted by Meccadeth
Go drive one, then come back to this thread.
Originally Posted by Meccadeth
Your criticism was directed at the Acura RL and in favor of the STS, saying that it doesn't look like another random car in GMs line-up. I could say the Acura RL doesn't look like a Honda Insight, but what point am I proving?
Originally Posted by Meccadeth
The RL is one of the top overall cars on the market right now. It is hardly "boring" by any means. It is exciting, right around the middle of its class in power, stunning looks IMHO, and plush as can be for the price. Its drop dead gorgeous interior is probably the best cabin I've ever sat in. It deserves its place on the list.
What it comes down to is that Honda was too cheap to engineer a proper RWD platform and a V8 to go along with it. With cars like the new Acura RL/Honda Legend its easy to see how Honda lost the title of the "number 2 Japanese automaker" to Nissan.
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