Can you say "cover-up"??
01-28-2010, 10:38 PM
#16
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I had several other automatic cars: 1993 Acura Integra, 1991 Chevrolet Beretta GTZ with 3.1L. Tapping the accelerator did not even exist as a concept in the Acura and Chevy. You could push the pedal or release it, then the transmission would shift.
01-28-2010, 11:24 PM
#17
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Location: Indianapolis, IN
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I still don't know what you mean by tapping. 
Not being argumentative at all; I'm just not sure what you are describing.
Throttle position is key to shift scheduling, however. Even on carbureted engines and hydraulic (no tcm) transmissions, there were various mechanical (or electrical) means for doing at least rudimentary control (like a kickdown switch). That Beretta may have been pre-electronic controls (like a 4T40 instead of a 4T40E or whatever, though it may have been a 3 speed auto back then).
Anyway, newer cars have much more sophisticated algorithms to control shift scheduling (and firmness, and so on).
Not being argumentative at all; I'm just not sure what you are describing. Throttle position is key to shift scheduling, however. Even on carbureted engines and hydraulic (no tcm) transmissions, there were various mechanical (or electrical) means for doing at least rudimentary control (like a kickdown switch). That Beretta may have been pre-electronic controls (like a 4T40 instead of a 4T40E or whatever, though it may have been a 3 speed auto back then).
Anyway, newer cars have much more sophisticated algorithms to control shift scheduling (and firmness, and so on).
01-29-2010, 07:56 AM
#18
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^^^I know what he means. In my '01 Grand Prix GT with a 3800 I did it all the time. All I would do on the highway is left off the gas, then give it part throttle, and I could make the converter unlock in 4th gear and gain a little speed...versus booting the throttle, downshifting to 3rd, and screaming the revs up...
FWIW, I hate electronic throttles. Most of them just don't feel natural to me...kind of like electric power steering.
FWIW, I hate electronic throttles. Most of them just don't feel natural to me...kind of like electric power steering.
01-29-2010, 09:07 AM
#19
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Hmmm, I see. Of course, typically if you step partially into the throttle, you will eventually reach the converter unlock point before reaching the downshift threshold.
Well, maybe I shouldn't say "typically", but that's how the 4T40E in my wife's L200 seems to work. Dunno how others are calibrated. Her car will also drop lockup if you go all the way to closed throttle, as you described, except in my case I specifically try to avoid doing it.
I tend to drive her car in a manner to attempt to maximize fuel economy, so I try to keep that baby locked up whenever I can. Torque converter slip feels weird to a guy who has owned manual transmissions almost exclusively! 
As an aside, in Allison big truck automatics (commercial trucks), the converter is pretty much always locked up from the top of second gear onward, unless an ABS event or something like that takes place to cause it to drop lockup. The 1000 Series in the pickups uses a different torque converter lockup strategy, however.
Well, maybe I shouldn't say "typically", but that's how the 4T40E in my wife's L200 seems to work. Dunno how others are calibrated. Her car will also drop lockup if you go all the way to closed throttle, as you described, except in my case I specifically try to avoid doing it.
I tend to drive her car in a manner to attempt to maximize fuel economy, so I try to keep that baby locked up whenever I can. Torque converter slip feels weird to a guy who has owned manual transmissions almost exclusively! As an aside, in Allison big truck automatics (commercial trucks), the converter is pretty much always locked up from the top of second gear onward, unless an ABS event or something like that takes place to cause it to drop lockup. The 1000 Series in the pickups uses a different torque converter lockup strategy, however.
01-29-2010, 09:16 AM
#20
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Location: Toronto, ON Canada
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^^^I know what he means. In my '01 Grand Prix GT with a 3800 I did it all the time. All I would do on the highway is left off the gas, then give it part throttle, and I could make the converter unlock in 4th gear and gain a little speed...versus booting the throttle, downshifting to 3rd, and screaming the revs up...
FWIW, I hate electronic throttles. Most of them just don't feel natural to me...kind of like electric power steering.
FWIW, I hate electronic throttles. Most of them just don't feel natural to me...kind of like electric power steering.
But I must say I am not opposed to drive-by-wire. It's my observation, it could be inaccurate, but it seems that in general responsiveness has improved with it: this includes transmission shifting, and gas pedal/acceleration response once the car warms up.
01-29-2010, 09:40 AM
#21
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Remember the woman who worked at Toyota's California plant? She was an inspector and she claimed she found problems with their seat belts. And that Toyota would not do anything about it.
Maybe there was some truth to what she was saying.
Then there was the Toyota lawyer who claimed that Toyota hid safety infoformation.
And now this.
Seems Toyota has a penchant for lying and covering up. What else are they hiding?
Maybe there was some truth to what she was saying.
Then there was the Toyota lawyer who claimed that Toyota hid safety infoformation.
And now this.
Seems Toyota has a penchant for lying and covering up. What else are they hiding?
01-29-2010, 10:42 AM
#22
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01-29-2010, 10:56 AM
#23
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Location: Ontario
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Like so many things, it depends on how well it's implemented. My first-gen CTS with electronic throttle felt slow-witted and sluggish unless you were really putting the cane to it. Whether that was the engine or the throttle, it's hard to say. But my G8 GT with electronic throttle feels just fine and I'd never even know there were electrons doing the translation between my foot and the blade.
01-29-2010, 03:11 PM
#26
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I'm not crazy about the throttle response in my Colorado. It's throttle-by-wire as well.
Don't know if it's the engine itself or the electronic throttle but it seems that there is a very minute delay when I quickly stab the throttle.
Don't know if it's the engine itself or the electronic throttle but it seems that there is a very minute delay when I quickly stab the throttle.
01-29-2010, 03:13 PM
#27
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I hope he AND that woman talk directly with the gov. about what they saw and what they know about Toyota's safety practices.
01-29-2010, 07:04 PM
#28
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01-29-2010, 10:02 PM
#29
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Toyota CEO: “I am deeply sorry”
Speaking for the first time since his company announced a massive recall involving millions of vehicles worldwide, Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda offered an apology to all current Toyota customers. Toyota’s accelerator pedal-related recall now spans 4.2 million vehicles.
Speaking for the first time since his company announced a massive recall involving millions of vehicles worldwide, Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda offered an apology to all current Toyota customers. Toyota’s accelerator pedal-related recall now spans 4.2 million vehicles.
I didn't know Japanese businessmen said they were sorry....Don't they normally commit suicide?
02-02-2010, 01:32 PM
#30
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http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Runawa...ory?id=9728007
Apple Founder: Toyota Problem is Software
Wozniak Says Problem with His Runaway Prius is Not the Gas Pedal
By RICHARD G. SERGAY, MARK SCHONE and BRIAN ROSS
Feb. 2, 2010 —
The day after Toyota insisted problems with random acceleration in its cars had been fixed by a recall that will replace gas-pedal assemblies, Apple computers co-founder Steve Wozniak told ABC's Brian Ross that he believes the problem with his Toyota was not gas pedals, but software. Wozniak also said he been trying to get the attention of Toyota and the government's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration for several months without success.
Wozniak said when he uses cruise control in his 2010 Prius, which is not on Toyota's recall list of models that may have "sticky" gas pedals, the car sometimes goes into an "unlimited speed up."
"I tap the cruise control lever to increase the speed and it basically goes into an unlimited speed up," said Wozniak. "If I hit the brake it disables my cruise control and it goes back to normal."
Wozniak said that the random acceleration on his Prius can be brought under control by brake and because he has a radar system that regulates his distance from other cars and forces the car to slow down if it gets too close to another vehicle.
"But since my foot never touches the pedal," said Wozniak, "[the problem] cannot be a sticky accelerator pedal."
"There might be some bad software in there," said Wozniak. He suggested that the problem with his own software might be related to the random acceleration issues in other Toyotas.
He also said he had been trying to get through to Toyota and NHTSA for at least two months without success. He said he got a "runaround" from NHTSA, and that he couldn't get past lower level people at Toyota.
"They don't see that this might be something important," said Wozniak.
As first reported by CNET, Wozniak told a crowd at an event in San Francisco on Monday afternoon that he had a "very scary" problem with his Prius and that he'd been trying to inform Toyota and NHTSA for several months that the issue was software.
"Toyota has this accelerator problem that we've all heard about," said Wozniak. "I have many models of Prius that got recalled, but I have a new model that didn't get recalled. This new model has an accelerator that goes wild but only certain conditions of cruise control. And I can repeat it over and over and over again safely."
Said Wozniak, "This is software. It's not a bad accelerator pedal. It's very scary, but luckily for me I can hit the brakes."
Toyota Insists Electronics Aren't Causing Acceleration Problems
When ABC News asked Toyota for a response to Wozniak's claim, a spokesperson for the company insisted that random acceleration is not caused by electronics.
"After many years of exhaustive testing---by us and other outside agencies," said the spokesperson via e-mail, "we have found no evidence of a problem with our electronic throttle control system that could have caused unwanted acceleration."
The spokesperson also said that Toyota is responsive to customer complaints. "We are in the business of investigating complaints, assessing problem, and finding remedies. That's what we do."
"It is in our best interest... as well as the best interest of our owners... to investigate any and all claims of unwanted acceleration."
Click Here for the Blotter Homepage.
Copyright © 2010 ABC News Internet Ventures
Wozniak Says Problem with His Runaway Prius is Not the Gas Pedal
By RICHARD G. SERGAY, MARK SCHONE and BRIAN ROSS
Feb. 2, 2010 —
The day after Toyota insisted problems with random acceleration in its cars had been fixed by a recall that will replace gas-pedal assemblies, Apple computers co-founder Steve Wozniak told ABC's Brian Ross that he believes the problem with his Toyota was not gas pedals, but software. Wozniak also said he been trying to get the attention of Toyota and the government's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration for several months without success.
Wozniak said when he uses cruise control in his 2010 Prius, which is not on Toyota's recall list of models that may have "sticky" gas pedals, the car sometimes goes into an "unlimited speed up."
"I tap the cruise control lever to increase the speed and it basically goes into an unlimited speed up," said Wozniak. "If I hit the brake it disables my cruise control and it goes back to normal."
Wozniak said that the random acceleration on his Prius can be brought under control by brake and because he has a radar system that regulates his distance from other cars and forces the car to slow down if it gets too close to another vehicle.
"But since my foot never touches the pedal," said Wozniak, "[the problem] cannot be a sticky accelerator pedal."
"There might be some bad software in there," said Wozniak. He suggested that the problem with his own software might be related to the random acceleration issues in other Toyotas.
He also said he had been trying to get through to Toyota and NHTSA for at least two months without success. He said he got a "runaround" from NHTSA, and that he couldn't get past lower level people at Toyota.
"They don't see that this might be something important," said Wozniak.
As first reported by CNET, Wozniak told a crowd at an event in San Francisco on Monday afternoon that he had a "very scary" problem with his Prius and that he'd been trying to inform Toyota and NHTSA for several months that the issue was software.
"Toyota has this accelerator problem that we've all heard about," said Wozniak. "I have many models of Prius that got recalled, but I have a new model that didn't get recalled. This new model has an accelerator that goes wild but only certain conditions of cruise control. And I can repeat it over and over and over again safely."
Said Wozniak, "This is software. It's not a bad accelerator pedal. It's very scary, but luckily for me I can hit the brakes."
Toyota Insists Electronics Aren't Causing Acceleration Problems
When ABC News asked Toyota for a response to Wozniak's claim, a spokesperson for the company insisted that random acceleration is not caused by electronics.
"After many years of exhaustive testing---by us and other outside agencies," said the spokesperson via e-mail, "we have found no evidence of a problem with our electronic throttle control system that could have caused unwanted acceleration."
The spokesperson also said that Toyota is responsive to customer complaints. "We are in the business of investigating complaints, assessing problem, and finding remedies. That's what we do."
"It is in our best interest... as well as the best interest of our owners... to investigate any and all claims of unwanted acceleration."
Click Here for the Blotter Homepage.
Copyright © 2010 ABC News Internet Ventures
