Sorry, meant the Aura.

 

I think the main issue is that GM has been too erratic with the focus of each division. Saturn should have remained a small car / dent resistant specialist division. They screwed up the focus and changed it into something akin to Oldsmobile, or tried rather.

Astra would be even better if they made no changes from the Opel. The monochrome nav screen for example was simly idiotic.

Basically whatever entity that is in charge of brand focus and that overall decision making is inept. Either that or such an entity really doesn't exist and they use a coin flip to make such decisions

Now this is quite the idea. I think you could probably make it work. It wouldn't be exactly what I would go if I was organizing, but I think it has some potential based on the hole they have dug themselves into at this point.

I think that first and foremost they are going to have to ignore the dealers when it comes to brand strategy and product development.

I'm curious though as to what you think the various vehicles in the Saturn-Buick-GMC group should be? Mostly the vehicles for Saturn and Buick.

 

At what point did GM decide to ditch Oldsmobile? What was the moment?

Funny part is, When I worked @ Saturn they made fun of GMC and Pontic dealers, but I wasnt sticking around for 10 cars a month

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa....That would entail knocking off three directors/VP's/manager's/and horde of hangers on. The small internal empires would be lost. Can't have that!!!









disclaimer: is intended as a joke. Actually think its a good idea.

 

Saturn is a keeper, they are often stand alone full line car dealership, like Chevrolet. Look at the development costs associated with stocking a Buick-Ponitac-GMC dealership with a full lineup, its huge, kill off pontiac and its poor reputation and make it Cadilliac, Buick, GMC.

Make Saturn hip and trendy, its pretty close now, Chevy fills the middle and offers traditional value, CBG fills the upper levels. Get rid of saab and hummer.

Dont give me this pontiac sells all these cars, the rental GP is gone, the G6's are also rental queens. Theres no profit. The G8 isn't selling as I predicted 6 months ago, very few are dumb enough to pay $30K for a pontiac. Its taken me awhile to admit this but pontiac and the koreans are pretty close company. Its going to take alot of downsizing to right this ship, killing off a large brand would tell stock holders and INVESTORS that GM still has some sense and isn't afraid to make the tough decisions.

 

The only thing I've seen GM do worse than botching Saturn was castrating Pontiac. End of story...

I'm so sick of thinking about it, that's really all I have to say. I don't wonder why GM's stock is so low today. I had some money left over in my Scottrade account from investing my Roth today...about $63. I bought 8 shares of GM. That is sad.

If they do the truly asinine thing and merge with Chrysler? A) I may be out of a job, and B) I officially give up on GM. I'll become a Ford or Mazda fanboy at that point.

I can't express enough how truly sad I am at this point with GM. Despite some true highs (Malibu, Solstice, CTS, trucks, Camaro), the amount of stupidity never ceases to amaze me. I'm gonna feel a little like good ol' redzed (any of us old schoolers remember him????), but consider the following idiotic moves...

1) G6 has no scheduled replacement.
2) G8 has no marketing
3) G3 will even exist
4) Buick listened to its dealer body and gave up a Zeta car so they can market some more geriatric ****
5) The Camaro costs $3k more for each model than a Mustang. Yes, it is better. But that doesn't always MATTER when it comes to that beloved monthly payment.
6) The Camaro interior so many people disliked at NAIAS is still with us
7) The Aura remains the best car no one knows about
8) Ditto the Astra. I understand the Lutz comment, but gimme a break...
9) The G5 is a blatant rebadge of a Cobalt, but doesn't even get a GXP derivative

But the biggest issues??????

Pontiac has no consistent message and no marketing
Saturn has no consistent message and no marketing
Buick has crap product aside from the Enclave, and no marketing


Are we seeing a pattern here? I'm done...merge with Chrysler, and it'll be 18 months before BOTH companies are begging for a bailout and/or gone. I used to be the biggest fanboy GM had...and now? I'm almost embarrassed. I want these guys to succeed...but I'm really beginning to believe the hype that said Wagoner wasn't doing enough fast enough. Lutz has done a great job...but the marketing muscle isn't there to get the job done. GM's largest failure in the last 5 years IMO is marketing. It just sucks.

 

Not true. The reason they down played they GM connection was that it was an employee owned company that wanted its own id. They bought the plant and tech that was used to make the pontiac fiero. Played up the completely american made idea. It was not about playing to the import crowd. It was the exact opposite. Its later when GM bought them out that they lost focus.

 

The problem with GMs marketing is that most of the budget goes to advertising incentives. The Chevy Traverse ads that ran during "My Own Worst Enemy" last night where it was raining womens shoes still has me scratching my head.

 

Sorry, but you're way off base here. Saturn cars were produced in a brand new, purpose-built plant in Springfield , TN. Pontiac Fieros were assembled in Pontiac, MI, and the plant was mothballed after Fiero production ceased. Saturn was not an employee-owned company; it was a wholly owned subsidiary of GM from the very beginning. And it was most definitely marketed towards import-intenders. That's not to say they pretended they were imports, but they definitely downplayed the connection to GM, as even back in the early 1980s GM realized that they had a perception gap and felt people would be more likely to give them a chance if they didn't carry the GM 'baggage' with them.

 

GM's plan for Saturn was to make small cheap cars that were better than the imports and were targeting people that would buy toyota and honda. They were not trying to market it as a GM brand and were trying to get away from that all together.

 

The G8 does get a lot of marketing. I see commercials for it all the time.

The interior the of the Camaro isn't my favorite either, but a lot of people liked it. There were many people who didn't like the exterior of the Camaro as well. You can't make everyone happy.

The Astra really isn't that great. In fact, I liked it more before I sat in one at the Texas State Fair on Monday. The center stack was too vertical. The leg room in the front was horrible. The center screen was odd. I don't think it is worth the price tag they are asking for it. Maybe a more upscale version of it is needed.

Everything else I agree with you with.

And the Enclave is a sweet ride. I love mine... when I can steal it away from my wife.

 

Do some research. The employees owned the factory. Saturn was an experement between management and the union. I am sure its on the web. Technically the subsidiary was owned by GM but they let management operate it as a employee owned company unilt trouble started. The plastic panels tech came directly from the fiero. And again, the ALL American thing was the marketing idea. It was an import fighter not a pretender.

Oh, I did not mean to say that the saturns were built in the same plant. Just with the same tech. I meant to say the employees owned the plant.

 

Please provide proof that the factory was owned by the employees.

The employee / management relationship was definitely a departure from previous Big 3 / UAW relationships in that the average worker was far more empowered. This idea of employee empowerment was a page out of the Japanese manufacturers' playbook, again, part of GM's experiment to build vehicles in a new and different way that more closely resembled how their Asian competitors operated. But that doesn't mean the employees owned the factory.

 

Do you see where you contradict yourself? Lets work together here, OK? GM owned Saturn from the start, period. GM owned the tooling to make the Fiero spaceframe, that tooling was sent to Spring Hill to be modified and make the S-series Saturns. The plastic body panels were used on several models (from the U-vans to the Fiero) they were NOT exclusive to Saturn nor were they the same as the Fiero panels. The 1.9 SOHC and DOHC 4 cylinders were modified Opel 4 cylinders.

While the union contract and negotiations were unique everything else was pure GM.

 

I've heard other people say that Saturn was "employee owned", so it's a common (though incorrect) perception. The "Different Kind of Car Company" marketing was that good, I guess.

The problem is that GM no longer has the concentration or the marketing budget to do long-term brand management. Nor are they willing to turn Saturn into Opel US and market it directly against Volkswagen.

Just like Buick and Pontiac, GM doesn't need another "Slightly better than Chevy but not really" brand. They haven't given any of these brands a unique identity that sells cars, none of them demand a premium over Chevy, and now the clock has almost run out.