But it will have to also fit in the tight spot between the Impala and a new Chevelle too.........

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The GTP never affected Camaro's sales. Even the lightning quick Buick Grand Nationals never fazed Camaro's sales.

Apples and oranges.....

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Simply returning the drive wheels to the rear & subsituting a V8 in place of a supercharged V6 isn't going to turn a car into a Camaro.

When someone goes into a dealer and finds three or four 2+2, V8 RWD coupes or sedans to choose from.....why buy a MC instead of the other three? Why buy a Camaro instead of the other three? Why buy an Impala instead of the other three? Why Buy a Chevelle instead of the other three? How slices are there to this small piece of pie?

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Camaro is lower, it has a smaller overall size, it's more "intimate" inside, and as a lighter vehicle, it would most certainly be quicker & faster than the Chevelle SS with the same engine.

So the only difference between a Camaro and a Chevelle would be ...you still won't be able to get two adults in the rear seat and it might be a tick quicker?!? Oh, and it might be a thousand or two cheaper??

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Camaro is closer to a Corvette than it is to a GTO-Monte Carlo-Chevelle SS. Corvette's doing just fine, even with the $13,000 surcharge it had over the Camaro SS.

You can not compare the Corvette to anything else in Chevy's lineup....it's in a league of it's own......

Unless the 5th gen looses it's attempt at rear seating all together....it will always have to compete with other 2+2, V8, RWD cars........from inside GM and from the outside.......and if they add yet another choice with the Chevelle....the Camaro's slice of the pie gets even smaller.

Scott has beaten this into my skull......this AIN'T 1965......1975......1985...or even 1995...it's a whole new, very crowded, ball game.

 

Doug, it seems like you've fallen into that all V8 RWD cars compete with Camaro mentality.

As you pointed out yourself, Comparing Camaro to Monte Carlo, Grand Nationals, and Grand Prixs are apples to oranges, and that my friend, is exactly my point!

If you were to walk into a Chevy dealer a year ago, would you get confused between a Camaro, a Impala, and a Monte Carlo? Of course not (at least I hope you wouldn't)! If those same cars were RWD, would you still be confused? Again, the answer would be no way!

Why, and how , would anyone get spun out if all 3 have RWD and V8s replacing FWD & V6s. Doug, we are talking about the same cars with just the drivetrains and engines changed out. Unless Camaro became a Monte Carlo with a nose job at an identical price, there would hardly be any confused customers.

Using the same logic, again one would have to go back to the 2 closest cars in GM's line up: the sports cars Corvette & Camaro. I'm sure you know how one team felt about a particular car and was glad to see it go. I'm also certain you know the reason why.

Corvette & Camaro were not only competitors inside GM, there were in the same program. That means I can compare them. Afterall, those inside did.

 

No, I fully understand the difference.....it's the average car buyer who walks into a Chevy dealership and has to choose between possibly four different cars with only slight differences in style, performance and cost.

Now add to that the cost to Chevrolet to having to build four similar cars......

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As you pointed out yourself, Comparing Camaro to Monte Carlo, Grand Nationals, and Grand Prixs are apples to oranges, and that my friend, is exactly my point!

If you were to walk into a Chevy dealer a year ago, would you get confused between a Camaro, a Impala, and a Monte Carlo? Of course not (at least I hope you wouldn't)! If those same cars were RWD, would you still be confused? Again, the answer would be no way!

Why, and how , would anyone get spun out if all 3 have RWD and V8s replacing FWD & V6s. Doug, we are talking about the same cars with just the drivetrains and engines changed out. Unless Camaro became a Monte Carlo with a nose job at an identical price, there would hardly be any confused customers.

I don't think confusion is the issue at all.....it's the cost of production vs the profit / return of building four very similar cars. I don't think any manufacturer can afford that luxury in today's market.

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Using the same logic, again one would have to go back to the 2 closest cars in GM's line up: the sports cars Corvette & Camaro. I'm sure you know how one team felt about a particular car and was glad to see it go. I'm also certain you know the reason why.

Corvette & Camaro were not only competitors inside GM, there were in the same program. That means I can compare them. Afterall, those inside did.

And one of them died because of it........my point exactly.

 

Personally, I wouldn't shed any tears if Chevy transformed it's whole line up into RWDs. But how many V8 RWD Coupes can you realistically have? Won't Camaro and GTO pretty much have the whole GM RWD V8 coupe segment covered?
Especially if Camaro is earmarked for 120,000 units and a next gen, home built GTO for 80,000?

I can see room for a RWD V8 4 door sedan, like Impala , though.

 

To a large extent I have to agree with Doug.

RWD appeals first and foremost to the enthusiast. I would think that that's a much smaller market that would cannibalize on itself.

Considering that GM is going to be late to the party, they will have to come with incredible product just to be a player.

 

In that case Doug, I suspect the choices would be easier. !st, each car has it's own name association and demographics. Let's face it, the average buyer is not going to walk into a dealership, and drive out with the most powerful version of a car. Going back to the Impala/Caprice example, a loaded Caprice not only had the same engine as Impala, but also went for the same price when loaded. Yet, both appealed to entirely different groups. As far as expense of the 2, the Impala, when you get down to it, was a trim package. Everything else was already installed on either Caprices or Police cars.

Going back to a case to produce the various Chevrolet models, I think you can agree that 1st, Impala can be dropped from this discussion since it's a sedan, leaving us a hypothetical Monte Carlo-Chevelle SS & Camaro.

Your point as I understand it is why produce these cars if they are going to be the same style, price & performance, and in the narrow confines of that, I'd have to agree with your point.

However, Camaro's lowslung, shorter, possibly hatchback design most certainly wouldn't be confused with a car that's 55" tall, seats 5 with alot of room, and has a large trunk. A car with those qualities would attract the same people like it does now. Families, people who do alot of long distance driving, & anyone who want's something sporty, but needs the space. Wouldn't you agree that Camaro isn't in that catagory, and it's buyers don't fall into that group?

The tougher case is for a Chevelle SS with a Monte Carlo in the room. As a separate car, it simply can't happen. But if I would make a business case for it, I would reach directly to the 94-97 Impala SS playbook, and base it on the Monte Carlo. Impala SS did extremely well, and made GM a pretty penny the was the Camaro SS has.

Taking a step down, a RWD Monte Carlo would be an extremely easy case to make, being that it's already in production & has a base of customers, and would serve as a more basic & genaric GTO.

It's safe to believe that Monte Carlo & Camaro will not look the same or be anywhere near each other stylewise, and therefore wouldn't confuse anyone. No matter how much they wanted to be.

poSSum, Thunderbird sold almost 80,000 cars it's last year 1997. Low end BMWs outsell their higher performance versions. Every Japaneese luxury brand jumped on the RWD bandwagon (except Acura). RWD has a stigma of being the realm of luxuorius, well balenced cars. RWD appeals to enthusiast (though that wouldn't explain the explosion of the FWD racer crowd), but in SALES RWD is more the domain of quality by association. Cadillac didn't go RWD to appeal to enthusiasts, and neither did Chrysler.

Hot RWD cars DO NOT make up the bulk or majority of any car line. They are the halo cars for the line they are based on. There are rare times it happens the opposite way, but you have to look at the carline. Camaros are sports cars, so the percentage of hot versions are going to be higher than say the Monte Carlo.

 

Badging the "sporty" Monte Carlo "Chevelle SS" and calling it a business plan strikes me as agreeing with Doug.

I appreciate what you are saying about RWD and its allure .... we may just define "enthusiast" differently. Also, our perception, U.S.A. vs. Canada, and probably more significantly, California vs. Manitoba, will be very different. That's part of what makes this forum so interesting.

 

I would like to hear more about this little story.... if you could tell us more.

 

In a way you and Doug are very right! There is no way to justify a separate car just to wear the name Chevelle SS, unless it's heavily based on a Monte Carlo.

But if being challenged to make a case to bring back the car name, and to keep it as separate from Monte Carlo as possible (even if both has an SS version) it would be a matter of engines, front end, and taillights. That would be the only way to both make it profitable, give it a separate identity, and place it in it's historical position.

This forum is one of the best...why I virtually live here every morning (in between working )

 

Might I also add this thought... although the "original" Chevelles and GTOs were both based on the A-body chassis, there's nothing saying that the "new" Chevelle SS has to be a sister car of the GTO.

Don't forget... Chevelles also came with four-doors....

You can see where I'm going with this, correct?

Pop-over to chevrolet.com and the "SS" pop-up window shows first an early 70's Chevelle SS, then the SS concept car. It's very likely the Chevelle SS will be a production model based on the current concept, and much like the SSR and Belair, a Chevrolet one-off custom limited production model.

That would leave the Monte Carlo as the mass-produced RWD 2+2 coupe (sister to GTO) and also Chevrolet's NASCAR mainstay.

 

Though I still think the SS concept was a Corvette styling preview, why would it be a Chevelle SS preview when the new Impala is due in less than 3 years? Wouldn't it more likely be a preview of that?

J

 

Are you saying the SS could be the new Impala? It's possible, however Chevrolet's own website hints to a connection with Chevelle. Maybe for once they are actually giving us a "real" clue.

I honestly believe Chevrolet intends to bring back the Chevelle name. With Monte Carlo, Impala, Malibu and Camaro already in the possible mix, a limited production super-coupe may be the only way that happens.