Well, I really find some of J Mays and Phil Martens' comments interesting. Especially the one from Martens about the 9 Mustang variants....from base V6 to $60,000 Cobra R. What's interesting about all those variants is....except for base V6...they are all performance models. No Type LT's or Berlinettas.

Obviously...there is no way we'll ever see that many Camaro versions. We certainly don't need a $60,000 Camaro. Nor would there be any point to it, considering Chevy has Corvette.

But we do need to work with what we've got, and develop them better.....that is...unless we are willing to create NEW Camaro performance models.

I think most of us agree (well I do anyway), that Z/28 is a pretty defined formula, and we've discussed in detail what that should be...so we'll put that one on the back burner for now.

Maybe we really need to develop a full line up of Camaro SS models...similar to the way that Chevy will approach Cobalt SS.


These Camaro SS models can provide the bulk of Camaro's performance variants...and fit in very nicely with Chevy's "SS strategy".

I think that there should be an SS version that is relatively easy to buy, easy to own and easy to modify. This Camaro SS will compete directly with Mustang GT..and have the same price points. Maybe call it SS5.3. The 5.3 could very easily compete with the GT's 4.6 3v...and even come in with afew more horses than the GT.

Another version of the SS might come with 5.3 and AWD. Maybe it could be called something catchy like SS ALL-TRAC...or something different.

I don't think we'll see a 400 horse AWD version...but we should have a RWD version. SS6.0.

What does everyone think.

 

You have some interesting thoughts there.......

Although I wouldn't be eager to see an AWD Camaro, I like your line of thinking.

 

Yeah, I know. But AWD doesn't have to take anything away from loyalists. It can be merely an additional model that would add consumer interest to the Camaro line.

Seeing that the platform will already be engineered with this feature....it's seems like almost a no-brainer to incorporate it into one Camaro model. Like RP says...it's important to try to guess where the market is in 2010.

In 2010, I think that I see lots of DC AWD LX cars. Of course the Riv will probably have available AWD...and maybe GTO will have an AWD version. An AWD Camaro model, could help put some pressure on Mustang.

 

If we are going to have AWD as an option... it MUST be availible on the sixers. AWD and v6s, are both sales strategies... make them both availible on the same car and you get a lot of sales. Oh did I mention, an awd v6 would be a great daily driver in michigan

 

If I ran the show:

1) Base V6
2) Rally Sport (RS) V6: Upgraded handling and braking. Upgraded Appearance w/ larger wheels, etc.
3) Rally Sport (RS) V8: Entry level V8 model, 300 HP. Same as above, but w/ V8, 5 speed manual or auto. Throw in optional paddle shifters
4) Z/28: Purpose built track star. A la Z06, but affordable (similar in price to #3, but a little more) except for no options other than the removable roof panel(s) and racing stripes (not available on any other camaro). Appearance is less flashy than the RS models, but more muscular, sleaker, and lower. Give it 350 HP or more and 6 speed manual. Give it a different front and rear bumper cover, also and a cowl induction hood not available on the other models.
5) SS: The loaded boulevard cruiser. Heated seats, power *** wipers, giant chrome wheels, Ram Air, Leather, automatic transmission, 332 speaker stereo system, HIDs, AWD, paddle shifters, whatever, you name it. All your options are found here. Give it 25 more HP or so than #4 (mostly for marketing and to make sure its not slower with all that extra weight) For price, the most expensive model, toping out at 35-36K for a softop. Make it look different from the others, as well.
6) Pull a Mustang move and have a "spring special" every year with a tape and stripe package and unique wheels and color.

Then, I'd go crazy and throw in two more doors like an RX8, and replace the V8 with a high output turbo 6, pontiacize it and call it the Turbo Trans Am. Then I'd go after the high tech performance car/sedan market (M3/Supra/ etc) with a car that would be fundamently different than anything we've seen before, not looking anything like a camaro, but still somewhat faithful to pontiac tradition. Or maybe not...

 

I agree, if any Camaro gets AWD it should be the V6. I know a lot of people who like the Camaro but would never buy one because it is RWD. A lot of people here in the North East are affraid of RWD cars. Plus AWD cars seem to be the next big thing in the auto world. An AWD 240HP V6 for $23K would sell like hot cakes in the north.

 

CAMARO SS5.3:

-310+ hp 5.3
-6 speed manual or 5 speed auto.
-17" wheels standard, 18" optional.
-Base price...$23,750.
-Maybe an optional "hockey stick" or "bumblebee" stripe.
-Available in Coupe, T-Top or Convertible.

 

that'il work

 

I still like the idea of having a

Base v6 - Your basic camaro
Base/RS v6 - Same engine but with ground fx and different rims (sport app package)
Z28 v8 - Track car, 1LE suspension, high reving smaller stroke LS2, better rear end gearing from factory (4.10s), 6-speed only. Makes less HP than SS, but max hp/tq come at a higher rpm.
Z28/RS - Same as above but with larger rims (18s?), lowering springs and ground fx.
SS - Loaded to the max with options (but allow for option deletes), larger displacement engine, special hood, different rims than Z28, smaller swaybars, more of a 1/4th mile car.
SS/RS - Again, ground fx and different rims than all models (this would be the most expensive version).

This makes the RS an appearance package the way it should be, reintroduces the cool SS/RS and Z28/RS designations, and makes buying an SS a different car than buying a Z28, not just having a Z28 that looks different. Itd be even cooler if they could get hide-a-way headlights on the Z28/RS.

 

I'm not really sure how I feel about an RS appearance package anymore. Whatever last breathe of life RS had after the 3rd gen got done with it.....the 4th gen certainly performed the "coupe de grace" and finished smothering out. Also, invariably....I'm afraid an RS front end will end up giving us an "ugly" nose and a "pretty" nose. Why not just put the pretty one on all Camaros. If someone had a good argument though...I suppose that I could be swayed.

Certainly one point that I could never be swayed on.. is bundling RS with Z/28 hardware. Or rather requiring it to get all the mechanicals. If 1LE should end up as part of Z/28, ( as you said..and I agree with), why do you need an RS package ---on top of that----to get more agressive wheels and springs?

Hide-away headights are one thing, requiring RS to complete the hardware on a performance package is another.

 

I agree. I'd rather see RS stay as a separate low or mid model. But I think that different front and maybe rear bumpers are a must, distinctiness is always good, as long as they're all nice.

 

I don't like this thread too much yet...

I think a lot of you downplay the Camaro a bit too much when you compare it to the Corvette.

The recent Camaro SS models made a lot of money per car sold for GM. I don't think they would want to ditch that formula. I like the ideas with AWD. I think it should be available in both V6 and V8 models.

What I really believe what we need is a high performance Camaro just under the 'Vettes next Z06 price range with similar performance. Maybe with the ZL1 name? Make it so that more than the 70 niche people can buy them, maybe a few thousand. It won't take away from Corvette sales. Whos going to buy a Camaro over a 'Vette if their looking for a 'Vette?

With the new platform, it shouldn't be too hard to squeeze in Camaro variants and make a lot of money off of them.

The Skinny...

V6 240ish HP $21K
V6 AWD 250ish HP $25K
V8 Z28 5.x 350 HP $25K
V8 Z28 AWD 5.x 350 HP $30K
V8 SS 6.x 400 HP $35K
V8 ZL1 6.x 480 HP $47K

Don't forget, all up until the 4th gen, V8s were the bread and butter of Camaro sales. I think if GM did it right, they could make it that way again...

 

I think that looks good, but the prices need to be lower.

V6 should start at $19K. I heard the Mustang will start at 18K.
AWD should be a $2000 option on the V6, $3000 on the 5.3L V8 (due to beefed up internals). 5.3L base price looks good at $25K but the 6.0L should be $30K. I think if the ZL1 Camaro has the same engine as the Z06 it sould cost $10K less. Or maybe the ZL1 could have a blown 6.0L and cost $10K less than the next Cobra R.

 

That might have been a smart strategy for the 4th gen, but probably pretty self-destructive on the 5th gen.

The SS served it's purpose as a low volume/high profit model on a dying car line. How many SS's were sold per year....5-7 thousand?

A 5th gen Camaro SS had better be good for 30-40,000 units per year......who knows, maybe even more. That calls for a way different formula than was used in the past 5 years. The SS brand, is going to be Chevy's volume performance brand. That's why...I believe...it needs to be developed into a number of SS models on Camaro.....as I suggested at the beginning of this thread.

I'd say....forget all the 4th gen paradigms. They don't necessarily apply to a new, high volume car. I wouldn't be surprised if Chevy will end up selling more 5th gen Camaros during year number one of it's intro, than they sold from 1998-2002.....combined.

*that is, if they build a Camaro*

 

I wouldn't mind the awd stuff too much but I think it would go better with pontiac. AWD and a turbo V6 would sure bring back memories of the 89 turbo trans am.