I'm not even going to touch the BM sub-thread here, but I think a lot of people need a wake-up call on the so-called "no haggle" pricing. Now, I base this on my experience with a local Saturn dealership. All no-haggle means is you can't get a lower price. The price is "the same for everyone". The same high price, that is. Part of this was the dealers attitude. The attitude is that they didn't haggle and that was the end of the discussion, even just trying to get any extras thrown in. They were quite rude and very short about it.

I'm sure that "no haggle" pricing is great for a lot of people, but let's be clear. The "no haggle" price and "lowest possible price" are not the same thing.

No, I don't base my opinions, hearsay, or projected analysis. I base mine on actual experience with real people.

I think the GMS pricing is probably a good quick-fix, but definitely not any sort of long-term solution. The truth is, I don't have an opinion either way since I get the discount anyway. But let's steer clear of calling "no haggle" pricing the holy grail. It's just not the case. It's GM's "no-haggle" price, not the buyer's.

 

With Saturn... no haggle pricing is no haggle pricing.

Not sure how you are not getting "the lowest possible price" when every dealership plays by the same rules, and they are the only folks selling the product.

They are NOT supposed to "throw in extras", because that defeats the point of no haggle pricing. Then the deals WOULD NOT be the same for all.

Now, if some Saturn dealers were no haggle, and others weren't, then yes, you'd probably be able to find a cheaper deal than the no haggle price, because the no haggle dealership would have to "shoot somewhere in the middle" to get an average return on total sales, where the dealing dealer would have some people getting nice deals, and screwing others.

BUT... that all goes out the window when no haggle pricing is MANDANTED as part of your franchise agreement... A Saturn here is the same as a Saturn there. Period.

 

Right on.

The other thing is, the people on this board are not the average public.

To someone that will not screw around with a dealer and argue him down on the price and just takes whatever crappy deal they give them, no haggle pricing is a godsend.

The general public sees no haggle pricing as the lowest possible price, not that they are getting screwed by not being able to haggle, but as getting value by not having to and still getting the price they expected to pay all along, as in the price on GM's website or the price listed in newspaper articles and such.

 

Poeple have different expectations when buying a car. Some want to pay what's on the sticker & get the hell out of there. Some (myself included) want to haggle. I enjoy making salesmen & managers cringe. It's almost a sport. The last vehicle I bought was below invoice w/ a full tank (31 gal.) of gas. I even got more than NADA RETAIL value for my trade in. I basicly tell them, "give me what I want, or someone else will"

 

Aw heck, my father just retired with 30 years at GM, father-in-law with 30 years at Chrysler, uncle with Ford for over 25 years.

I get the employee discount anyway, I just care about GM and therefore participate in these discussions.

 

cool, great for you. But, you are in the VAST minority regarding this. You are the one that makes the averages what they are. You got a great deal. that counteracts the many others that got slightly screwed over. 1 great = several slight.

 

Buyer beware! If people aren't smart enough to know that the MSRP is negotiable, then maybe they shouldn't be allowed to drive.

 

Very true.

I put a lot of "bad deals" on the unprepared/uniformed customer's shoulders...

Most people, though, know to not pay MSRP... the problem the people face who get bad deals, though, is they either get robbedo n their trade in's, or they do buy under MSRP, just no where near what it should be.

 

Again this is you guys on this message board. You really think most of the public is that educated about purchasing a vehicle?

GM really doesn't care about you guys, heck they probably don't like you, LOL.

They care about the general public that makes up the large portion of their sales.

 

Maybe it's just me. But i see GM as having alot of nice new cars on the lots. As in new models that compare very favorably with anything in their classes. GM's biggest problem is overcoming the public perception that they make junk despite many of these new models rating higher in surveys, better value / features / etc.

The only way to turn that stigma around is to get more asses in to cars. Period. Everytime someone buys a new GM car, many more people get exposed to these great new cars we're all talking about. It's not just the buyer and his wife, but also consider any of his extended family, friends, coworkers, and clients that might take a ride. All of a sudden, a toyota driver for life might think that a malibu or G6 is a pretty nice little car, and might also go check one out while they're on sale if he's in the market. Or, maybe next year, when GM has lowered their MSRP, meanwhile toyota is trying to raise there's, maybe that pushes him to shop american.

Point is, if peopel aren't going to dealerships to check out cars, then discounting them to put them on the street where people have no choice but to see them is a great idea.

Of course, i wouldn't expect a car salesman to appreciate losing his ability to gouge an average uninformed consumer, especially when his ability to maike a buck was already limited by the fact that he sells 90% of his cars to GMS qualified people already.

As for me, i can already see the effects. I'm an electriocal engineer, and for years, i never saw any new GM vehicles popping up in my lot. Just this summer alone has been a big **** and i see all sorts of new stuff out there. Hell, i know a guy that bought a vette a year before he planned just because he didn;t realize that it wasn't covered by the employee pricing plan. He went, saw the car and started to deal, and then found out it was regular price. He still bought the car because he was already there. BTW, it's the first american car the guy has ever bought, and he wouldn;t have stepped on the GM lot if it weren't for the employee price ads.

 

also, screw haggling. When i bought my GTO i used GMbuypower.com to get quotes from all my local dealers on all their stock. The closest dealer to me didn't have the best price on a red M6, but it was close enought to stop by on my lunch hour so i did. test drove the car and spent another good hour or so with the sales guy and manager. In the end i still couldn't get the manager to go to the number that i had others quoting me, was over $1000 off. and even when i told him so, he wanted to play games

So i left there, and after work i went to the next closest dealer, drove the car, signed the paperwork and had a GTO.

If i'd have really pushed, maybe i would have got the original dealer down another grand. he definitely seemed to be in to the game. To me though, once i told him twice what the other dealer quoted me, he'd lost his chance to match it.

 

very false, I work in a small independantly owned store, and we have margins for a reason, so at the end of the month everyone gets paid. I also sell stuff... dog food mostly, and some people prefer the cheep stuff, and some people prefer the higher grade stuff that accually is cheaper in the long run.

again no price is haggleable, except the export market, we sell millions of dollars of dog food to our lovely friends in japan.

Prices are set to make sure they cover costs... and when I go somewhere, out of respect, I dont haggle with them... out of respect for the buisness trying to be run, I dont argue with the price, if i dont like it I go else where.

 

Which is pretty much the way I sell.

I don't artificially inflate just so I can be negotiated down, although there is some temptation to do so in the industry.

What happens in the end is that you end up building trust by demonstrating integrity through not inflating you wares. The price is the price, I'll try to get the best price I can for my customer but still make a profit. In the end, the idea is to make a fair profit for the shareholders, but at the same time maintain a long-term relationship whereby I get to sell LOTS of stuff over years and years.

It's worked pretty well so far.

 

PacerX,
I operate in the same manner, it works well for the customer and dealer. Do you agree that the willingness of the buyer to pay for a particular product should be a determinant in the sale price as opposed to a preset amount figured by the factory?
Jim

 

Depends on the industry. My industry, although I sell car parts to OEM's, is significantly different than selling cars.

For long-term sales, it's better to set a reasonable margin, regardless of if you have a significant advantage technologically.

"What it's worth" is more important than "what they'll pay" due to the value of the long-term relationship to me.

Since my customers are far more educated on the products at hand than even the sharpest of new/old car buyers, and my products are significantly less complex than a whole car... they have a solid idea of what things cost anyway. Heck, they have whole departments dedicated to determining what a product should cost, packed with very intelligent people who do that day in and day out.

Right now I have a product with a huge technological advantage over my competition, but it is still relatively simple. About 13 components total, and they all use very common manufacturing processes and are pretty small physically. The buyers know what the thing costs to make, so I'll never be in a position to exploit them - and that's a good thing as I don't want to.

Emotion does not enter in the buying decision in the case of my product. It's an all-business atmosphere. The buyers are not emotionally invested in having it or not having it, so it comes down to a simple cost/benefit calculation. You cannot "hard-sell" a GM Purchasing Agent. Ain't happening. The hard-sell means desperation on the part of the salesperson... fear. They smell that like sharks smell blood in the water.

With a car, since the consumer does not have the advantages that my customers do, I think it builds integrity in the brand to use things like "no-haggle pricing" because they assure the buyer that he/she is getting a fair deal since everyone else is getting that deal too. Saturn has fiercely loyal customers, and I think that's one of the reasons - they perceive themselves as always getting a fair deal.