interesting fact: According to the US gov't, last year a luxury car was any vehicle over $42,000. Chevrolet out sold Lexus buy that definition.

 

Yeah everyone knows Benz is tops in prestige - but they still don't sell as well because they're more expensive and problematic. A Lamborghini Gallorado would draw about 10 times the prestige of the Corvette Z06 but I still think GM has a far better overall formula with the Z06, and it reflects in sales, too.

Do you mean Cadillac? Or GM as a whole compared to Lexus or what?

Any source for that definition and source for those sales stats based on that definition? I've heard that time and time again on this board but never once seen a link to a credible source.

Not saying it's not true but I just have yet to see it come from anywhere but people's posts on this board.

 

Probably SUV sales, I'd guess

 

The thing with Lexus is that they are more like a better Lincoln than a Mercedes or BMW. I think they would need to move a bit away from where their design emphasis is now in order to displace either one of those German marques.

 

I know this drum has been beat a thousand times...but, when you go out of the middle of the country and go to the coasts, a huge change in culture occurs. In the Midwest, it is more than acceptable to drive Cadillacs...in CA, for example, or Los Angeles to be specific, it is acceptable, but the real brands are no less than MB and BMW. Lexus qualifies, Infiniti is getting better, but Cadillac is far behind in that race. Cadillac cars are the ones under scrutiny, the Escalade is a big hit, and in the stylish factor, and in the interior design factor, and in the presence factor, and in the superior technology factor, Cadillac is still far behind. MB, BMW, like someone stated above, have too much heritage to think you are going to topple them that easily, and with each successful product intro, thier heritage increases. MB is in the midst of a product onslaught, and all of them are style homeruns. BMW is an alternative to MB. Both style identities are clearly defined and seperate themselves from the rest. STS didn't do enough, and SRX did it the wrong way. CTS needed more updates, maybe some flashy chrome trim here and there, maybe redesigned headlamps with more visual impact, definitely better base wheels, etc.
The next few intros Cadillac does are more crucial than ever. Sadly, I think thier rise will stagnate, since STS and SRX will be around until '09 at least.

 

New CTS next year, already be photographed at least 2 times. STS refresh the next year, should be substancial. SRX gets new interior for 07, should be shared with 07 STS. 6 speed autos now in 07 STS and SRX's. New CTS should be 6 speed autos across the board. XLR is due for a refresh sometime soon. Caddy will continue to roll. I am not worried about that.

 

What?

 

What?

 

This is an interesting thread.

Cadillac is definetly on the road to where it needs to go. Most of the stuff that guy pointed out is really nit-picky. Yes I know luxury buyers, especially ones in BMWs and MBs are worse.

Realistically though, I can't imagine how you could cross shop a GL and an Escalade and then choose the GL because of a tilt wheel. If thats all it took you probably were not seriously considering a Cadillac in the first place.

That crowd will take a long time to come around, because Cadillac just ISNT in the same league as MB and BMW at the moment.

Trying to match or beat MB gadget for gadget is just stupid IMO. Even MB can't defy the laws of engineering. The more gadgets you put in, the more will break, thats why their quality is on a slippery slope now.

IMHO the road to sucess is not beating MB/BMW/Lexus at their own game. Its Cadillac having a better game. I personally don't think there is anything wrong with Caddy being a relative "bargain".

Merc owners love to tell you about all the crap you can get on a Merc, half of Merc owners don't have most of it. The other half can't/don't use most of it. 549749 way adjustable power seats is just overkill. Keep the stuff that makes since, memory, heat/air, etc, And either drop the other crap or find away to make it better.

Models like the XVI, and Evoq should prove we can engineer with the best of them. For the rest of the lineup, it should be american styling, bulletprof underpinnings, and goodies that are luxurious but not megalomaniacal.

Part of the problem with Lexus I think is that it is really just as nice as BMW/MB, but it can't give you much they can't. Except 10k left in your pocket.

 

Ahem... you've been online at least a couple times since I wrote this...

 

http://www.forbes.com/2005/12/09/lux...12feat_ls.html
I don't know if that helps but I found it on google.

 

Honestly it didn't cite a magical $42,000 number, nor make mention of any government or other official classification, nor state anything about relative sales above any price point.

I don't mean to be rude but for some supposed "fact" that I've seen countless people here citing, there seems to be very little in the way of an actual source.

 

I don't have a link to a source, but I do recall that Chevrolet (not GM) was the largest seller of vehicles priced greater than $35,000. This, of course, was because of their truck sales.

For a long time Cadillac has been the largest seller of vehicles classed as luxury vehicles. Although the base CTS is below the luxury threshold, pretty much every other vehicle they sell is above it unlike most of their competitors.

If it helps, you may consider me 'credible'

 

I'm not sure I see where any of these points are coming from.

First of all when you say brand character, what do you mean specifically, because I'd say that Cadillac clearly has a more defined character at this point than its Asian competitors (the Germans still lead in this category). The new Cadillacs are for better or for worse, distinctive, bold, and can't be mistaken for anything else. If you debadged a CTS or SRX, you would still have a hard time finding someone who couldn't identify it as a Cadillac. In contrast, what makes the IS-300 undeniably a Lexus? Do people see an Acura RL coming down the street and think, "That's an Acura"? I honestly can't beleive they do.

I certainly don't understand your point about Cadillacs only succeeding against older competition, and having no lasting effect. If you look at Cadillac's most successful models, you'd see that it's quite the opposite. The CTS is one of the older models in its price range - the 3 Series, 5 Series, G35, and IS-300 all having come out with new models. The CTS is still selling well, and still does respectably in comparison tests. The SRX has been the best in its class for several years according to Car and Driver.
And, if I may ask, what vehicle on the market even touched the overall package the GMT-800 Escalade offered when it came out? For that matter, what vehicle outright beat it a few months ago when it was replaced by a model head and shoulders above it?

Finally, what makes the buyer of a Cadillac an "average joe"? Is their money more "average" and less discerning than the same amount of money one would spend on a competitor? Is it impossible that for all of a CTS' shortcomings (interior) a customer sees advantages to it that make it worth his/her money, and isn't just too stupid to buy a G35?

 

Nope, I mean Chevrolet. Add up all the Suburbans, Tahoes, and Corvettes that sell for over $42K and Chevrolet beats Lexus.

I'm not sure what the # is this year (could be $45,000 ) but I remember reading a year or two ago when they upped it from $40K to $42K.

before the Zypher Lincoln was the #1 co. with the highest % of car sold over $40,000, but I think Mercedes had the highest total #.