shouldn't be too difficult to verify for someone who might be bored and have time on their hands.

don't the auto makers publish sales numbers for various vehicles at the end of the calendar year? well, number of car X sold for MSRP (for a rough estimate) plus number of car Y sold for MSRP, etc etc etc, and see who comes out on top. if there is a huge margin then its probably a good estimate

 

I'm still waiting to see this magical "fact" showing Cadillacs sales of vehicles with MSRPs over 42k vs Lexus' sales over 42k MSRP - and it better show a pretty big disparity considering that Caddy generally offers much deeper discounts and rebates than Lexus - or just show me a survey with actual prices paid - that'll work too.

Then show me where the government declared anything over 42k was automatically classified as a luxury vehicle?

Calling a Chevy Suburban a luxury vehicle is kinda crazy - you gonna call an F-350 diesel a luxury vehicle too?

 

Completely agree with that.
The fact that they sell well with less frequent updates is a testament to how good they are. However many of the people in the cars you named will only consider the newest whatever, if the newest CTS is 5 years older then the newest BMW... Not to mention the obvious, "Imagine how well the CTS could sell if it were refreshed more often."

I agree with this too. The personality of the cars, and the fact that every Caddy is probably bigger than its competition catering to american appetites gives them something the others dont.

There are a lot of people reaching up, for a cadillac who realistically should be in a class lower. There arent nearly as many people who are in a 5 series but think, "hmmm that STS is such a good deal."

 

Thats just what the Gov't definition is 2000 Cobra R is far from lux too, but it cost over $50K

Also..correct me if I'm wrong since I don't have the exact #, but the new Tahoes avg. sale price is now over $40,000 up from something like $35K

 

I suppose if its not a work vehicle, for most people owning a vehicle over $40,000 is a luxury... Even if the vehicle itself isn't luxurious.

 

Why are you giving me carpoint links to an average sales price for the '07 Tahoe? Is that some sort of substitute for the links I asked for?

If they are facts, the links should be easy enough to find. Strangely I can't find 'em... and I'm beginning to be not so sure they even exist.

 

After a crap load of searching the closest thing I can possibly find is that the government used to charge a "luxury tax" on vehicle purchases that exceeded 40,000 bucks. That went away 4 years ago, but was still far from the government defining the vehicle as a luxury car. It was the equivalent of a graduated federal income tax scale where you get taxed more if you make twice as much a year as the guy next door.

 

I think it is/was tied to the (now defunct) luxury tax. I searched a bit, too, and found an article by John Teahen of Automotive News. He uses the $42000 cutoff; I think I saw it in an msn article too, but I don't recall who wrote it. Teahen doesn't say how or why $42000 is the number. Perhaps it is just a commonly used breakpoint between "normal" cars and "true luxury cars". I mean, compared to my Ion, a Lexus ES or Caddy CTS are certainly luxury. But compared to a GS or LS, or an STS or XLR, I guess they aren't. The fact that there are many many "non-luxury" cars in the high 20s/low 30s these days (Camry, Impala, Accord, Maxima, etc. etc.) with non-luxury names has caused desire for a distinction. If a $33k ES330 is a luxury car (because the Lexus "brand" is associated with luxury cars), is the $32k Impala SS? Sounds like a gray area at best, but nonetheless...



From Teahen's article

 

What numbers show the rebates that Cadillac and Lexus are offering? From what I've noticed, Caddy offers pretty skimpy rebates - even when other GM brands are promising anything short of sexual favors to get the sale.

I remember seeing that article you're looking for. I LexisNexus - as soon as I finish writing this stupid essay on Romanization. In any event, I don't see why you would be so surprised. For all of Lexus' spectacular success in $30,000-40,000 range, they, along with the other Asian nameplates, have had trouble cracking the "true-lux" category. And then there's that other thing, you know, the Escalade. It starts at over $42,000 and sells like hotcakes on 22" rims.

 

I suggest you read my other thread in reference to 'cracking' the 42k barrier.

 

RL Polk defines vehicle segments. For instance, there is 'near luxury' and 'luxury' -- (sorry, don't have a report in front of me......and I don't look at them with regularity anymore as I don't have the time to do so.....)

So......calling a $65,000 Corvette a luxury car is kinda off base -- and you wouldn't count it as a luxury car -- rather, it is in the 'high sport' segment.

"The Standard of the World" -- is becoming more difficult to define. Part of the problem -- at least on this and other enthusiast sites -- is we, as a group do not define the entire car and truck market. Our likes and dislikes are in many cases diametrically opposed to the average buyer -- not only in the domestic market -- but other markets as well. (thus, the reason a Camry is such a big seller, yet most of us wouldn't buy one.....)

Cadillac is spreading into several market segments as opposed to essentially building sedans and a few coupes 30 years ago.

The REAL question is: What defines 'Standard of the World?" -- and I think most would agree that order becomes taller and taller every day. Even when Cadillac WAS the Standard of the World, there was always a Rolls Royce with more prestige and luxury than a Cadillac -- but how many did they sell?

Will Cadillac ever be able to claim "Standard of the World?" I dunno. I'd sure like to think so -- and I think it would be a feather in the cap of all U.S. and Canadian Citizens........part of our national pride, if you will. (..which begs the question: IS there such a thing anymore as 'national pride'........and that question depresses me 'cause I'm afraid it doesn't mean anything to a lot of people....)

I don't think we have any plans in the immediate future to build a competitor to the Maybach.......on the other hand, can the Maybach make the claim as 'Standard of the World?"

Many musings here.............

 

You seem to be twisting the same statistic in opposite directions to suit your comments.

First, you pointed out that Lexus outsold other luxury brands in an attempt to establish it as number one. That's when I asked you if you consider a luxury car to be #1 based on sales.

Now you use the example of Benz - they don't make the same sales, yet they are number one as far as luxury / prestige is concerned.

 

Twisting? Please do tell what I've been twisting? Lexus is #1 in sales, Benz is #1 in public perception of prestige. What is there that I twisted?

Which would I consider indicative of being the #1 luxury brand? Sales.

As I've already said - you tell me which car is considered more prestigious and then which would be considered the more successful car... a Ferrari (pick your flavor) or a Vette (Z06 or regular). Most people would say the Vette has been the far more successful sports car but you sure are going to turn way more heads with a Ferrari.

I would consider sales indicative of success and I'm fairly certain if you asked almost ANY car company for that matter who they'd like to be #1 in, it'd be sales/volume first, prestige second.

 

Not necessarily....in theory you could make more money by being more prestigious yet selling less vehicles....granted, probably not a lot less vehicles....

GM still sells more vehicles than anyone else but we sure as hell know they aren't making the most money. That may be a bit like comparing apples to oranges but the theory still applies.

 

I think Porche was the prime example of this as they sold relatively few cars and had VERY few models but for a long period of time they seemed to be the one's with the best return on investment as they were the most profitable automaker for at least a few years in a row, I believe Nissan/Renault has beat them out on this recently though.