Automotive News / Industry / Future Vehicle Discussion Automotive news and discussion about upcoming vehicles

C&D: Cadillac to build Lexus ES-fighter

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jul 13, 2009 | 11:40 AM
  #46  
Z28Wilson's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,165
From: Sterling Heights, MI
Originally Posted by Big Als Z
Its very easy to be a Caddy developer...just make the best cars out there. Problem is the budget that GM has to give to Caddy. If the budge tis small, then you work small.
That is one helluva contradiction. Kicking and screaming about Cadillac being laser-focused on BMW and Mercedes without a large budget, and that being easy to do? You lost me there - unless you are saying the developers' job should be easy, but GM is choking them.

Your comments about Caddy's DNA are interesting. I would say that Cadillac was forging a very focused DNA - and now it seems they are reverting back to the "something for everyone" concept that should be more Buick. Disappointing to say the least.

RE: Escalade. People trash the Escalade without even stopping to think....THAT is the vehicle that single-handedly made Cadillac cool again in the eyes of younger successful people (not to mention became a blingy pop culture icon). The CTS just continued to build the momentum.

Last edited by Z28Wilson; Jul 13, 2009 at 11:44 AM.
Old Jul 13, 2009 | 04:39 PM
  #47  
teal98's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,132
From: Santa Clara, CA
Originally Posted by Z28Wilson
That is one helluva contradiction. Kicking and screaming about Cadillac being laser-focused on BMW and Mercedes without a large budget, and that being easy to do? You lost me there - unless you are saying the developers' job should be easy, but GM is choking them.

Your comments about Caddy's DNA are interesting. I would say that Cadillac was forging a very focused DNA - and now it seems they are reverting back to the "something for everyone" concept that should be more Buick. Disappointing to say the least.

RE: Escalade. People trash the Escalade without even stopping to think....THAT is the vehicle that single-handedly made Cadillac cool again in the eyes of younger successful people (not to mention became a blingy pop culture icon). The CTS just continued to build the momentum.
Yeah, and it brought in a lot of profit. That comment and the contradiction you pointed out lost me.

I think the main problem GM has right now with Caddy is not enough $$ to develop the sedans they need. The STS and DTS need replacing, and they just don't have the money to do a proper flagship.

So a large EPII is a necessary evil, so that they can offer something larger than a CTS.

If it's a choice between Alpha and a flagship, Alpha has to be more important.
Old Jul 14, 2009 | 12:38 AM
  #48  
Big Als Z's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,306
From: Jersey Shore
Originally Posted by Z28Wilson
That is one helluva contradiction. Kicking and screaming about Cadillac being laser-focused on BMW and Mercedes without a large budget, and that being easy to do? You lost me there - unless you are saying the developers' job should be easy, but GM is choking them.
What Im saying is that being in charge of Caddy's development should be easy. Its the budget that ties them back. So you built from the ground up.
Infinity, 10 years ago, was nothing but rebadged Nissians. Sentra, Maxima, and a Japanese RWD Nissian.
They started with a fantastic G35, and built up from there. Now they have a car that truely is a 3 series fighter!!! The first REAL car to fight the 3 series!! Out of a company that added leather to a Sentra not 10 years ago!!!
So you start off small, again...but this time, really small. You buy a fleet of 3 series and a fleet of G37's. Drive them till the wheels fall off.
Then build an Alpha car.

Your comments about Caddy's DNA are interesting. I would say that Cadillac was forging a very focused DNA - and now it seems they are reverting back to the "something for everyone" concept that should be more Buick. Disappointing to say the least.
Ehh...it was alright. The CTS brought a true world class RWD sedan to market. Then you had the STS, which sucked some of the wind out of the A&S design sails. The SRX was a CTS wagon, narrow and tall...very awkward, but very good handling for such a crossover.
But you had the DTS and the Esclade which dont fit anywhere. DTS is the old way of Caddy, and Escalade is the money maker.
You also had the XLR, which sounded good, it really did! But failed and falled short on every level.
Then the 2nd generation of the Caddies rolled out. Esclade was worlds better and no longer a rebadge job.
The CTS was a true world class sedan
but...thats where it seemed to stop? No STS replacement, but the CTS is as big as the STS...so where is the lower end replacement?
In europe, we got the BLS that went over like a fart in church.
Its been strike out after strike out.
Now, you have the CTS that cannot stand up to the new mid sizers, or even the updated and newwer entry level cars.

IMO, if I got the call tomorrow to go to Caddy, the bulk of my work would be on Alpha, with some work getting a L99 into a CTS, along with a major MCE.
There needs to be a foundation. And IMO, the Alpha should spawn a 3rd gen CTS.
Forget the flagship idea for now. Caddy doesnt have the money, nor the ability to put one together. There is so much more that has to go into a flagship car then just coming up with good leather and wood. The luxury needs to be built in from the first bolt, to the first weld, to the window seals, to the AC vent *****, everything...beyond what Caddy can do right now. Let Caddy learn with a BTS and a CTS car.
Alpha could also spawn a crap load of other cars. Crossovers, coupes, wagons, sedans, roadsters, convertables...on and on.


Originally Posted by teal98
Yeah, and it brought in a lot of profit. That comment and the contradiction you pointed out lost me.

I think the main problem GM has right now with Caddy is not enough $$ to develop the sedans they need. The STS and DTS need replacing, and they just don't have the money to do a proper flagship.

So a large EPII is a necessary evil, so that they can offer something larger than a CTS.

If it's a choice between Alpha and a flagship, Alpha has to be more important.
Like finding a mate to buying a car, you dont just settle so you can say you have one.
Work on Alpha, dont waste money on develloping a super epsilon.
If you want, work on a MCE for the CTS to give it E/5 class level of luxury and features. And a V8. Throw in the small block, you arent going to do better then that. If you can silence the LSA, you can make an L99 disappear.
Old Jul 14, 2009 | 01:27 AM
  #49  
teal98's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,132
From: Santa Clara, CA
Originally Posted by Big Als Z
Like finding a mate to buying a car, you dont just settle so you can say you have one.
Work on Alpha, dont waste money on develloping a super epsilon.
If you want, work on a MCE for the CTS to give it E/5 class level of luxury and features. And a V8. Throw in the small block, you arent going to do better then that. If you can silence the LSA, you can make an L99 disappear.
Unlike finding a mate, the point to building cars is to make money. Maybe Caddy should do like Infiniti and just forget about a big car for a while. But they definitely give up profitable revenue doing that. I don't think it's an easy decision, because you also dilute the new brand you're trying to build.
Old Jul 14, 2009 | 11:59 AM
  #50  
Z284ever's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Originally Posted by teal98
Unlike finding a mate, the point to building cars is to make money. Maybe Caddy should do like Infiniti and just forget about a big car for a while. But they definitely give up profitable revenue doing that. I don't think it's an easy decision, because you also dilute the new brand you're trying to build.
The XTS will probably be a nice car and even profitable. But it won't do much for Cadillac's image with regards to competing with MB and BMW. I hope it serves as an ends to a means.

Last edited by Z284ever; Jul 14, 2009 at 02:29 PM.
Old Jul 14, 2009 | 03:39 PM
  #51  
teal98's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,132
From: Santa Clara, CA
Originally Posted by Z284ever
The XTS will probably be a nice car and even profitable. But it won't do much for Cadillac's image with regards to competing with MB and BMW. I hope it serves as an ends to a means.
Yep.
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Novo
Forced Induction
45
Jun 14, 2016 02:58 AM
brothaslide
2016+ Camaro News, Sightings, Pictures, and General Discussion
6
Jan 9, 2016 12:11 PM
CARiD
Supporting Vendor Group Purchases and Sales
0
Sep 30, 2015 05:44 AM
pepon214tx
New Member Introduction
4
Sep 20, 2015 04:48 PM
sleeperZ96BT
Parts For Sale
0
Sep 10, 2015 08:01 AM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:13 AM.