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C&D: Cadillac to build Lexus ES-fighter

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Old Jul 7, 2009 | 03:37 PM
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C&D: Cadillac to build Lexus ES-fighter

XTS Will Not Replace DTS—It Will Fight the Lexus ES

If everything goes to plan, Cadillac’s future sedan lineup could look more conventional, as the brand has stated its desire to avoid “tweener” cars such as the current CTS, which competes with both the BMW 3-series and 5-series. The new sedan strategy would encompass the following models: a full-size flagship to replace both the STS and DTS; an all-new, appropriately sized 3-series fighter; the CTS, which would be freed up by the smaller car to truly gun for the 5-series; and a mid-size Lexus ES competitor to be called the XTS.

But there have been obstacles. A large rear-wheel-drive sedan based on the Australian Zeta platform, which underpins the Chevy Camaro and soon-to-die Pontiac G8, was the most prominent casualty of tightening fuel-economy standards. The platform would have made an excellent top-of-the-line sedan for Caddy, but its weight and rear-drive layout aren’t particularly efficient. The project, internally dubbed DT7, is basically dead.

With that project’s demise and with the Northstar engine—and the DTS and STS models that use it—going out of production next year, a significant gap will need to be filled at the top of Cadillac's lineup. Cadillac recognizes the need to offer a vehicle above the CTS; one insider says the brand wants to avoid becoming the "CTS brand.” That flagship, our sources indicate, could be derived from the SLS, a stretched STS sold in China. For U.S. duty, the car would be reskinned and use a version of GM’s small-block LS V-8. This makes some sense, as a rear-drive eight-cylinder car on the Sigma architecture would be a better competitor to the German heavyweights than a soft-riding car based on some version of the Epsilon platform—which underpins the Chevy Malibu—as other reports have indicated.

But that car will exist. Rather than be a large STS/DTS replacement, however, it will be a slightly down-market, plush, front-drive (or front-drive-based AWD) model that Cadillac will build on a stretched Epsilon platform. This sister model to the Buick LaCrosse is currently under development, and will be offered with normally aspirated V-6 engines. It will clearly emphasize comfort over dynamics, in the mold of the Lexus ES, and will be the same size as the ES, too. This car, which will probably be called the XTS, will begin production at GM’s Oshawa, Ontario, plant in late 2011.

Gunning For the 3-series In Earnest?

More exciting, we think, is a compact rear-drive sedan positioned below the CTS and built on the on-again/off-again rear-drive Alpha platform. This sedan would be a true BMW 3-series competitor, and we'd love to see it make production. But it could still be derailed by cost; the Alpha platform is reported to cost nearly as much to produce as the Sigma platform used by the CTS, and a previously planned cost-amortizing Pontiac variation obviously is off the table. While we think using a shortened Sigma platform would make the most sense, we actually hear that Bob Lutz—who will fully retire from GM at year’s end—is championing scrapping the Alpha platform for an all-wheel-drive variation of the Delta architecture, which houses the Chevrolet Cruze and the next-gen Opel Astra. But such a Cadillac spun off the Delta platform would be awfully close to the BLS—a.k.a. the "Bob Lutz Special"—the infamous first-generation Epsilon derivative that completely bombed in the European market.

The next-gen CTS, Cadillac's core model, will come after all the above. Cadillac aims to grow the CTS slightly for its third iteration, placing it even more firmly in BMW 5-series territory. Before that, however, the stunning coupe version of the current CTS will debut this year, with a high-performance V variation arriving shortly thereafter.

Smaller Escalade Coming, Cadillac City Car a Possibility...
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...illac_car_news

While I can hear the cries of pain, there's a lot of good news in this article. If everything is true, Cadillac will have a pretty comprehensive lineup.

Converj - Delta2 Voltec
XTS - FWD Epsilon2 ES fighter
Small RWD Cadillac - Alpha BMW 3-series fighter
New CTS - Sigma BMW 5-series fighter
New 'STS' - Sigma large traditional Cadillac
Escalade - Lambda based crossover
Old Jul 7, 2009 | 03:42 PM
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You forgot the SRX, but yes, I agree with you on the line up.
Old Jul 7, 2009 | 03:49 PM
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I assume they are calling it a ES fighter instead of a DTS replacement because it will be in the 197-200" range and not the 207'

I'd still like to see a SLS sold in the USA, or maybe a 4" stretched CTS. SUVs have kind of replaces the large cars of the past. You get as much or more room in the 190" SRX than the 207" DTS (or at least it feels that way)
Old Jul 7, 2009 | 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Z28x
I assume they are calling it a ES fighter instead of a DTS replacement because it will be in the 197-200" range and not the 207'
That and it will probably be priced around $35K instead of $50K, and have no V8 or other high output option.
Old Jul 7, 2009 | 04:31 PM
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I think most of this is encouraging, but GM, please don't scrap Alpha for an AWD Delta II for Cadillac! That will NOT work. I don't have a problem with a cushy "traditional luxury" front-drive based XTS as that's more or less in Cadillac's brand heritage. But if you want to do a small sport/luxury car, DO IT RIGHT. Give Chevy a version of the sedan and base the next Camaro off of it and boom, there's your volume.

An AWD Delta II will be, almost laughably, LESS competitive in my opinion with the current 3 series models than the Cimarron was with the 320i of its day.

Perhaps they could do what Ford did with DEW98 and D2C - leave the expensive bits for the luxury brand and make a cheaper derivative for the volume leader.
Old Jul 7, 2009 | 06:21 PM
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I thought Buick was supposed to have the Lexus ES fighters.

What's Buick supposed to be now? What will be the difference between the LaCrosse at the XTS?
Old Jul 7, 2009 | 06:24 PM
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It's really a matter of survival for Cadillac: It needs a comprehensive vehicle lineup.
Old Jul 7, 2009 | 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by SSbaby
It's really a matter of survival for Cadillac: It needs a comprehensive vehicle lineup.
I suppose so. I still see Buick being squeezed. It seems the only reason for shopping at Buick/GMC will be that you don't like the Cadillac or Chevy dealers where you can find essentially the same product, or you like the Buick/GMC styling better.

When the plan was for Cadillac to be luxury RWD/AWD and Buick was luxury FWD/AWD, the differences were more clear. Of course, I suppose the plan could change again....
Old Jul 7, 2009 | 06:38 PM
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Sigh.

LaCrosse should be aimed at ES. As it already is. Buick as a whole was supposed to be the 'smooth luxury' brand. Meant to compete with Lexus.

Caddy was supposed to be the edgier sportier brand, meant to compete with BMW, Infiniti, etc. CTS is a great car but a bit confused... it's priced like a 3-series, but sized like a 5 series. So will XTS be priced like a 1-series, sized like a 3-series, and tuned like an ES/LaCrosse? Wow... as if things weren't already muddied enough.

And then of course this means we still have no flag ship car, either.
Old Jul 7, 2009 | 07:42 PM
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1) The "XTS" will be quite abit larger (AFAIK) than the ES, so...

2) Alpha is not only on, it's a high priority.

3) I'd be shocked if Bob Lutz were trying to kill Alpha.
Old Jul 7, 2009 | 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by teal98
I thought Buick was supposed to have the Lexus ES fighters.

What's Buick supposed to be now? What will be the difference between the LaCrosse at the XTS?
This and the talk of scrapping Alpha is what bothers me most about this article. If true it shows that GM still doesn't get it. I understand the reasoning behind making the XTS, the problem is that, as has been said, takes Cadillac into Buick's proposed territory. Cadillac was on the right path, and to be fair it is still to early to say that they've gotten off of it, but I'm beginning to become more and more concerned as we go.(not counting the CTS)
Old Jul 7, 2009 | 08:58 PM
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I'm kind of on the fence with the XTS. On one hand, I'd like to see Caddy compete head to head in the 'serious' luxury car segment with BMW and Mercedes, ditch FWD, and go all RWD. On the other hand, Cadillac still doesn't have the reputation and likely isn't cross-shopped too much with those premiere brands. It could never get the volume to sell upwards of 200,000 RWD cars a year. Perhaps it is better off competing at the low end with the FWD entry level luxury cars from Lexus, Audi, and Acura. You cannot say that FWD has significantly harmed those brands' reputations in the minds of consumers so why should it be any different for Cadillac (if done right). Buick is likely too far out of Audi et al's league so if the General wants to compete for those consumers, Cadillac is likely their only weapon.
Old Jul 7, 2009 | 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by R377
I'm kind of on the fence with the XTS. On one hand, I'd like to see Caddy compete head to head in the 'serious' luxury car segment with BMW and Mercedes, ditch FWD, and go all RWD. On the other hand, Cadillac still doesn't have the reputation and likely isn't cross-shopped too much with those premiere brands. It could never get the volume to sell upwards of 200,000 RWD cars a year. Perhaps it is better off competing at the low end with the FWD entry level luxury cars from Lexus, Audi, and Acura. You cannot say that FWD has significantly harmed those brands' reputations in the minds of consumers so why should it be any different for Cadillac (if done right). Buick is likely too far out of Audi et al's league so if the General wants to compete for those consumers, Cadillac is likely their only weapon.
I agree 100%, but then it brings about the oft repeated question of what is Buick's place in "New GM." If Cadillac is going to be bringing out models that compete directly with the Lexus and Acura crowd(and the Acura models are still fairly sporty when compared to a Lexus - minus IS series - , or at least were) as well as the BMWs and Mercedes offereings, then Buick is still pointless.

If you take away Buick, then there are issues with the ability of GMC to survive as a stand-alone brand. Part of me believes that, as sad as it would be to have the general whittled down to two brands, that a Chevrolet/Cadillac North American operations is the strongest path for a successful GM.
Old Jul 7, 2009 | 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Z284ever
1) The "XTS" will be quite abit larger (AFAIK) than the ES, so...

2) Alpha is not only on, it's a high priority.

3) I'd be shocked if Bob Lutz were trying to kill Alpha.
But will Alpha stay a high priority (how's your crystal ball working)?

AWD Delta sounds so ... A3-like. That's not where Cadillac wants to be.
Old Jul 7, 2009 | 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Threxx
Caddy was supposed to be the edgier sportier brand, meant to compete with BMW, Infiniti, etc. CTS is a great car but a bit confused... it's priced like a 3-series, but sized like a 5 series. So will XTS be priced like a 1-series, sized like a 3-series, and tuned like an ES/LaCrosse? Wow... as if things weren't already muddied enough.

And then of course this means we still have no flag ship car, either.
XTS will be sized like a 7 series, but probably priced like a 3 series, unless it is hybrid only. 200". Alpha will be the Caddy 3 series.



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