Yeah. Lets de-engineers our cars. I hope you're kidding.

 

The only way I would drive a Mustang product is if it was donated to me for flogging.

Charlie

 

I think he is kinda right. Id buy a Big Block carborated engine in a A/C Radio and all the otehr soccer mom options deleted any day over the current pussified cup holding small block POSes. There was a time when GM was not affraid to produce a striped down pure muscle machine ..... they were brutal and fast and were very advanced for teh time in all the right places. For the avalible tech they were top of the line. The First camaro came with 4 disc all around and could be ordered with a solid roller 427. Or take the L-88 Corvette it had top of the line 4 disc brakes the widest tires made full independent suspension and non of the stupid options like radios and A/C.

If you wanted the options then you could have ordered them but if you wanted a real car you could have ordered that too. Id like to buy a new vette but i really dont want all the JUNK on it. I want a car with a killer engine that looks nice and does nothing but drive like a race car.

If i want comfort id buy a Honda or some other heartless suburbiamobile

 

And now a days GM is into making money

 

yeah right. they are not making $ off passenger cars. Back then they were. Look at the production #s of the early camaros compaired to when they went down the craper in 03. Sometimes its not about making $ look at the Viper it does not make money yet they build it. Trucks and SUVs unfotunatly make the money for GM so there is no time for a car that people think is cool or fun to drive. Its fine to stick with what is your bread and butter but not offering something that a lot of people want just to make a little more money is still bad buisness IMO. I would have probrably bought a new camaro just for the fact of it being a new car and very fast. Now that they dont make it there is nothing that GM makes that i want. Or can afford (Z06). Id rather spen $23000 on a restored 69 Camaro or a 69 Vette than drop $40000 on a UGLY Ausi built Gand Am uh i mean GTO.

I think GM needs to get their heads out of their asses. Build something fast and cheap is it that hard. The only people that want fast impractical cars are not in the market to buy them. Lets remember what the GTO was built for in the first place. A muscle car that a working father could buy his son. Not some yuppie wanna be. In 69 you could see GTOs SSs R/Ts Roadrunners and EVEN Vettes in HS parking lots. This is the target market for these cars.

The second GM was charging $30000 for a well optioned T/A was when they stopped selling. I bought my fully loaded Z28 in 95 for $20000 almost even. Selling a car with the same body and a simmiler but better motor 10 years later for almost Double the price is insanity.

 

First off, we can not fault GM for their decisions over the past decade... Yes decade, the F-body has been written off the GM product line even before the sales numbers begain to drop off. The SINGLE most contributing factor leading to the death of our pony car IMHO was imports, and their ability to offer cheaper, more reliable vehicles that meet the demands of, what has now become a very impatient, very different society than we have known for most of our lives. We have to understand that our opinion of excess has shifted from big blocks and race tuned suspension to plush leather seats and cruise control. We have officially passed the era of FAST, excessive sports cars (that could be owned by any pimple faced teenager that has saved a few pay checks, and DRIVEN because they could actually afford to pay their insurance) and have evolved into an era of luxury, finely tuned fuel economy and the ability to get that in a package that also allows us to own a house on the lake and raise a family(many people just say yuppie). GM has simply advanced with the times, like all good corporations must to avoide a belly up fate. Do we even know the foundations of GM? Do we even know WHY William Crapo Durant actually formed the company we know as General Motors? He believed in inovation, he believed that we will advance as a society and that nothing stays the same. Well those of us who belong to this site know why WE want them to build cars, but the fact remains the same. General motors will ALWAYS produce a vehicle that is appealing to the MAJORITY, and for the time being, we are not the majority, but a simple group of hobbiests and day dreamers. The only thing we can do, is promote our way of life to our offspring, so that maybe we can rush in the eventual revolution that will bring back the type of vehicle we so love. Because if there is one FACT that we ALL KNOW, it is that GM KNOWNS HOW TO BUILD A MUSCLE CAR, and that will never change. Just because there is nothing in their lineup right at this time, doesnt mean they have forgotten their ability to stuff a ballsy V8 into a beautifully styled, light sports car. Everything works in cycles, and we (domestic auto companies) are generally 5-7 years behind the imports. This being the case, take a second to think about what is rolling off the import assembly lines..... Nissan 350Z (even the 350Z part already has a pretty esteemed past of its own), BMW (as always, their engineering remains second to...well I guess I must say the General), the Mazda RX8 pumps out 247 rwhp and is 0-60 in 6 sec flat. Even Volvo has a 300 bhp/ 295 lb ft of torque car with 330x 32 brembos! , Audi TT quattro is in a league of its own. Just hold tight, I have a feeling something may happen with this SS concept, and if not, check out the new Pontiac Solstice roadster. Its about our turn again, and when we have something to smile about, I expect as many posts praising our boys at GM as we saw dissing them.

Just my two cents.

Charlie

 

I would love a "stripper" car its too bad dealers didn't have them on the lots I've looked at I might have bought a new one instead of used. And for the record I too love the first gens the best, and no that was not me hiding under another name for anyone who might have though that.

 

I don't know marketing all that well, but I think it has to do with supply and demand.

F-bodies became more and more expensive prior to their demise (just a shade over $40,000 CDN for my '02 once the tax, etc., was added), making them now unaffordable for young people.

Insurance has also become more expensive. I currently pay $4500/yr (again, Canadian) for my '02. I'm currently 21, and only have 1 minor speeding ticket on my record. The insurance companies charge this much simply because, well, "they can".

The problem is, as much as we all want GM (and the competitors) to build super-fast, *****-to-the-wall, pure, raw, muscle-cars, "society" (COPS, parents, **cough** "SANE PEOPLE" **cough**) don't want the volume of fast cars on the streets anymore. Whether it's stereotyping or not, the fact is, MOST 16 -> 20-something year olds can't handle these cars, and with the volume of cars and traffic on the roads nowadays, you can't get away with being a "mediochre driver" in a powerful car.

I am young, and I've been able to responsibly handle my Z28's ('81, '02), and as much as it pi$$es me off to no end how expensive my insurance is, I realize that it's influenced by society and stereotyping as much as by what GM decided to build or not build. It's not their fault that most people under 25 stopped buying F-bodies. It's the high insurance prices and the HUGE frown upon "stretching your car's legs" even if you CAN afford a muscle car that has stopped the young crowd from buying them. And now with less demand, there is less supply, and the "sports/muscle cars" that are built are priced out of range anyways.
OMG, I was dying laughing at that!!!!

(Just for the record though, my "daddy" didn't buy my car for me. I have bought and paid for it myself, although it's tough affording anything else right now. As well, I would like to see the Camaro be brought back. What a sad ending to a 35+ year era of such great cars).