VW... how many RWD vehicles do they make?

They have such an over-hyped image it is ridiculous. Besides, they are really a poor man's Audi.

I'd say that Holden is the closest thing to BMW, but we don't get them over here so maybe it is a moot point.

 

OK. So you first say that Pontiacs are not cheap because Hyundai and Kia are cheaper. Then you go on to say that "people buy Mazdas because they're cheap". Bulletprooof?

Mazda does have a distinct design. Look at RX8 and Mazda6, the cars share similarities in the front, so if you see one and then the other you will not mistaken them as belonging to two different brands. Your Chevrolet and Toyota and Honda are nothing but average vehicles. Mazda offers a little more excitement. Have you driven one? You will notice that it performs and handles and feels a little more like an enthusiast's car than the rest. Even the average Mazda6 with 4-cylinder engine and sport wheels feels sporty, something I could not say of Malibu or Accord with its ridiculous size wheels.

 

I agree 110%...especially up here in the Northeast. Wanna-be yuppies drive these things, but word is spreading...their quality is in the toilet. Many people are NOT so happy with VW anymore.

I voted Mazda because the 6 is fantastic, the 3 is even more impressive for what it is, the Miata is truly a poor-man's Z3, etc.

Once Pontiac has the full G6 line out, the Solstice out, does SOMETHING with the damn Sunfire, and does something with the GP, THEN I would vote Pontiac. Otherwise, on the intrinsic "Poor Man's BMW" scale, I have to vote Mazda...

 

I voted Mazda.

Its easy when you look at the basic premise of both brands.

BMW's are sporty luxury/yuppie mobiles. All, from the 3 series, to their SUV's offer this formula.

Mazda's are sporty mainstream vehicles in a much lower price range. All, from their Mazda 3's to their SUV's offer this formula.

Pontiac has 1, maybe 2 current vehicles that are sporty. The rest are pretty much mainstream transportation appliances. They are marketed as sporty, but, short of looks, really do not deliver. Never once have you heard any magazine compare the outstanding handling of any vehicle to a Pontiac. Yet, the pinnacle of sports car handling is the Miata. The pinnacle of handling for sporty car is the RX8. The pinnacle of handling for the econobox is the Mazda 3. The pinnacle of handling for the mainstream midsize is the Mazda 6. Hell, even the Tribute is the best handling cute ute. Yet, short of the RX8, it is impossible to get any Mazda to price out over $30K.

Thus, Mazda is the poor mans BMW.

 

The only two cars from any of those brands that could even be compared to a BMW are the Pontiac GTO (M3 at a 325 price) and the Solstice.

 

None... Pontiac might be close in 5 years if it gets more RWD's/AWD's.

 

Do people still buy Miata's these days?

Nobody seems to be lining up to buy a RX-8 either.

I get the impression the RX-8 has been a sales flop, and there are plenty of good reasons why. It isn't as practicle as they'd have you believe, and normally aspirated rotaries still don't have much torque. The upcoming electrically booster turbochargers is interesting, but I wonder if it's too little, too late. RIP Wankel Rotary.


Both the 4 and 5-door look dorky, and the Mazda 3 isn't exactly cheap. I've often wondered if a stripped Volvo S40 wouldn't be a better deal on a lease than a loaded up Mazda 3. Still, ditching the "Protege" label was a step up.

The 6 hasn't been the success Mazda had hoped for, and it seems smaller and with duller styling than the best in the class. On the plus side, this is one of those rare cars that's outclassed by the new Pontiac G6. The Mazda 6 wagon (or whatever they call it) seems like a really poor value compared to the Magnum, but there again, what doesn't?

Alrighty, the V6s have can scoot pretty well but the fuel economy isn't all that great. I've given the Escape a good twirl, and I can honestly say that the huge Nissan Armada is vastly quicker and far better handling.

 

1. The Mazda 6 and 3 are pretty dull in my book. These are cars that the G6 and Cobalt really have a chance against.

2. The Miata is the SMALL-MAN'S BMW, literally. I challenge anyone approaching 6' to fit in one of these things. The BMW Z3 was such a huge success (in part) because it could actually accomodate a reasonable sized human being.

Whoa...

When even a Pontiac salesman (part-time) rates Mazda ahead of Pontiac, it really says something.

 

VW.... having owned both, and driven them back to back, i can honestly say, right up until you hit a turn and have to drive FWD style instead of RWD style, they're the same.

they have the same stiff feeling chassis, similar control feedback, euro styling, comfortable seating, ect... granted i had the heated leather seats, max options, VR6 jetta, but none the less, its ALOT more BMW then a mazda, scooby or poncho.

 

Miatas have only recently started to slip off in sales, that's why theres a full re-design coming based on the RX-8 platform with I4 & V6 engines ofdter

RX-8 sales have well passed the expectations of Mazda, and with that Mazda is talking about reviving the RX-7 based on the same platform.

Base price for a Mazda 3 is $5 more than a Civic. And every single car magazine has labeled it the most fun car in it's class to drive.

That's the first time I've heard someone say the Mazda6 has the duller style. When you put the G6 and Mazda6 next to the dullest car in it's class (Accord), which looks more like that? Maybe you should actually test drive the mazda6, it's still a better ride than the G6. Again, mag's hold the 6 to be the best 'sporty' car in it's class.

This has to be the dumbest, most uninformed statement I've ever read on this, and I hold this site up with high regards.

As for poor man's bmw, I would say Mazda, they benchmarked the 3 series to build the 6, although overall I think VW takes the cake.

 

Redzed, you have a pretty negative view about almost everything........... amazing. If the world bought cars according to your likes and dislikes, there would be 1 car manufacturer with 4 vehicles. One small, one medium, one truck, and one SUV.

That said, if you have driven an Escape, then you have not driven a Tribute. The Tribute is tuned much differently than the Escape. The Escape it tuned for ride, and the Tribute for handling. As a matter of fact, the Tribute, with its 235/16 M&S's will pull the same slalom numbers as my Lightning, which runs on 295/45/18's (61.6mph).

As a comparison, the much newer Equinox pulls 60.9mph, the BMW X3 does 61.3mph, the Honda Pilot 57.8mph, the Escape 60.5mph, and the Jeep Liberty 59.9mph. As a matter of fact, the only one that outhandles the Tribute is the Saturn Vue Redline, at 64mph.

You owe it to yourself to actually drive some of the Mazda products. They all have definite sporty characters. This is part of the reason that the Mazda products will never compete with the big "transportation appliances" in sales volume.

 

You are such an obnoxious little twit... However, your amusement factor remains unrivaled on ANY forum.

I knew you would be the only person to take that comment and stretch it that way. I do not rate Mazda ahead of Pontiac...that isn't the question. The question of whether or not Mazda is closer to BMW than Pontiac does NOT constitute one is necessarily better than the other. BUT, they are different.

Pontiac has larger, more luxurious models such as the Grand Prix and Bonneville that Mazda does not even offer. I actually prefer the G6 to the 6. However, if you compare Mazda's lineup with BMW, there could be more similarities. The 3, the 6, the RX-8 and the Miata as an entire line-up, IMO, better mirror BMW than a Sunfire, a G6, a car that has no direct correlation (GTO) and a still-waiting-for-it Solstice.

I appreciate you letting everyone know about my (part-time...pun intended) employment status. I doubt there is a person on this board that hasn't heard you complain about my "affiliation" with GM. I love how every single post you enter leads to your view getting entirely trashed...

Yes world, I am a Pontiac salesman, and yes, I believe BMW is better mirrored by Mazda than Pontiac. With that being said, I'll take my new G6 GTP in Stealth Grey with a 6 speed and 2 doors, thanks very much

 

Sales of cars is one thing. People's opinions on their looks is another. But handling is yet a third thing.

Mazda3 outhandles everything in its class. Mazda6 is at the top of its class (if not the best) when it comes to handling. And RX8 has received very positive reviews for its handling. It may lack torque, it may lack sales, but the driving experience that it provides is the closest to BMW out of the brands listed, as most of us agree on this forum in this thread. Car magazines feel similarly.

 

There's always one product (car, truck, SUV or whatever...) that is the best in any market segment. When it comes to automotive buying decisions,
I always settle on my rides PDQ.



If a Mazda isn't a "transportation appliance," I don't know what is. Back in the early '90s, Mazda tried to carve out a BMW-like niche - even after Amati was axed. They failed, went broke, and they've been putting out boring Ford-like products ever since. Believe it or not, the Mazda 3 lacks the safety gear of even the cheapest Golf, and if it's one lick better than a Civic or a Corolla, that's only because this market segment is pretty stale. Even the Mazda 6, that so many people seem to like on this board, is amazingly unremarkable when it isn't painted yellow. I won't even mention the MPV, which is too small for the USA, but a bit too large for Europe and Japan.

In the end, driving a Mazda doesn't do much for me. Kudos to Ford for saving Mazda from itself, but that's all the congrats I can offer.