Hoodshaker

+1. It never ceases to amaze me how the Chevy guys can't understand that 85% of the car market does not buy Chevies because they don't identify with the brand image. The other divisions allows GM to reach those buyers.

The "kill everything except Chevy and Cadillac" brigade don't get it. They assume we'll just buy a Chevy instead. Just like the Oldsmobile guys ---oops they didn't.

For every 1 person that buys a Chevy 8 people do not. Not everyone wants to wear a bowtie.

BigDarknFast

Amen.

Here's another variation from KMorgan... with the classic 2Gen rims



Someone could make serious $$... providing a kit with these rims, front and rear fascia/lights and maybe a hood.

97z28/m6

so you'd rather buy an import? least if you bought a chevy you'd be buying pretty much the same car.

HuJass

If GM was economically sound and in good financial condition, I would agree with you 110%.
But with them teetering on bankruptcy, they need to do whatever it takes to stay around. If that means axeing everything except Chevy & Caddy, then it needs to be done.

I'd rather see a Chevy-Cadillac GM than no GM at all.

Z284ever

Exactly. Right now, I'd just be happy to see Chevy-Cadillac survive, even one day, thrive.

King Moose SS

Thats a Smexy car, I really did like the Firebird / Trans Am concepts alot. It still feels weird, 10 days before the camaro comes out.... and I still can't get over, that there will be no Firebird brother to be there.

SharpShooter_SS

That's the rub. I'm a fan Pontiac too, now on my third in a row, but push comes to shove, a GM that's just Chevrolet and Cadillac (in NA) better reflects the reality in the automotive world and allow GM to make more focused and hopefully more successful models. That's something any GM fan should see - we're pretty close to the alternative and staring into the abyss. I'd rather have a GM to cheer on as opposed to clinging to a comatose, dated brand ladder just becasue I prefer the arrowhead as opposed to the bowtie - so similar that the preference is almost bordering on ridiculous.

Hoodshaker

Very True. Which is why I have no problem with Pontiac having to "get skinny" for a little while. That positions GM well for better times. Eliminating it entirely would leave them flat-footed when the tide rises. Apparently someone at GM knows this since the division isn't going anywhere.

I've seen it reported that GM has 400,000 retirees who they pay pensions and heathcare for. Toyota has 700. Its easy to see where the money went and why someone thought pushing trucks and suv's was a good idea. If you have to spend $11k to make a $10k car and your competitors only have to spend $8.5k to make the same car you can't win. You have to move up to more expensive higher margin vehicles to make a buck. Its not complicated. But it also is not sustainable, as we've seen.

That is the main source of GM's financial problems, not the brands. But we are where we are and there will be casualties.

To quote "The Dark Knight", "Either you die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villian". GM, and Ford made the mistake of living to be 100+ year old companies. Before the imports came on line here they were doing what was considered the right thing by offering good wages, pensions and retiree heathcare. Then the imports gained a foothold and played by no such rules. So now the big 3 are villified for it. I love revisionist history.

The question that has plagued the big 3 for 30 years is when is the right time to pull the rug out from under people who committed their lives to working for you and not live up to your end of the bargain? When you're making billions by playing the suv shellgame? That would have gone over like a lead balloon. But I guess that's why CEOs make the big bucks.

I will not buy an import. I'm seriously considering a new G8 even though I hate 4 doors. I can and would buy used down the road. Over the last 2 years I've spent 30k restoring my '79 TA that would have gone to a new Trans Am instead if one were coming.

But yes, many others who are not as diehard pro american/GM as I/we are will buy whatever car suits their needs. Import or not.

97z28/m6

its a great car if you get over the 4dr thing...

1965GP

Pontiac needs to make a car that people want so bad it is worth more to the buyer than $$$. I think a proberly done 5th gen could be that car.

Here is my reasoning- when I drive our 79 (even the crappy one) everyone- and I mean everyone notices that car and can't help but stare at it. Doesn't matter if they are 5 yrs old or 80.

Some love it, some wonder why the hell it has a bird on the hood but everyone notices it.

Pontiac made cars for people that wanted to get noticed and they sold like crazy. To make it as a niche performance division right now the cars have got to LOOK so amazing that the owner can get in every day to drive to work and say 'yea- this is worth $450/month to me- I could be that guy with no spine in the Mamry"

Performance needs to be there but isn't what will sell it- the GTO was fast as hell and very few of us bought one- but look how many 301 Trans Ams, 305 firebirds and ram air grand ams they sold.

I think this is why the G8 is still selling- people that want the car just flat out want it. They want aggressive styling, power and to be a little different. No other car in that price range will give you that.

Sorry- had to rant for a second.

bossco

That works so much better than using earlier stuff.

Hoodshaker

That's no rant. Its the truth. VERY well said.

poSSum

We need a GM free of internal pecking orders, turf wars and other stupid stuff that keeps every vehicle built by GM being the best it can and focuses on bettering the non-GM competition. That means no Firebird or T/A based on the Camaro.

HuJass

qft!!!

1965GP

I wish they would let the designers go crazy for a few years with no restrictions and see what happens.

I would love it if GM went back to the way it was in the early 60's- a few cars per brand and several trim levels.

I think/ hope Pontiac could be very successful with 3 cars if done right. they have all this insanely cool history (anyone read the story how the 59 Pontiac ' 1st split grill' really happened?) and need to build off of it.

I saw an orange Challenger the other day and thought to myself that when the burbon finally dies I want that- it quite simply looks so good it is worth the money to me. I sure wish Pontiac had something like that (coupe 60?).