It's not that far off and batteries haven't advanced that far recently. You basically are saying you have no idea how it can be done, but that people have made breakthroughs before so you're going to try to force someone down that path despite the huge pitfalls and unlikelihood of the situation just to make yourself feel better?

 

Compare the first EV1 with the Volt, huge advances in battery technology and much much cheaper now. With more Laptops, cell phones, and now cars driving demand you will see a lot more innovation over the next decade. I don't know for sure what there will be in 2025, but I know it will be a lot more advanced than what is out now.

 

First problem is lithium/magnesium/manganese/nickel/etc supplies will run down(at current growth trends) VERY fast - and as supply drops, prices skyrocket. Not to mention the environmental effects of mining those metals. And then when you get countries like Venezuela who are intent to horde and stockpile till they can set an insane price....

The major advancements in the past 15 years haven't been all *that* incredible (when comparing the energy density level and cost per kwh as the criteria). The other problem (that you can't get around by any means) is charging and discharging batteries generates heat. LOTS OF HEAT. And as energy density increases, you end up having an incredible reduction in surface area to cool them. Hybrid battery packs of today already require an incredible amount of engineering to keep the batteries properly cooled. If you double the energy density (which won't nearly be enough in the long run, btw) then the chance of "thermal events" goes up exponentially.



The better solution (in my mind) is still hydrogen. You can run a piston engine on hydrogen, you can run a fuel cell (and electric motor) on hydrogen. You can refill a tank in 5 minutes, you don't have giant thermal runaway issues, and you dont need to strip mine the crap out of the planet.

But in order to get hydrogen cheaply and effectively, we need work fusion reactors to provide nearly limitless free electricity. Where's Doc Brown when you need him?

 

The other is government backed loans because it does not make money.

CAFE is stupid really. Want to change buying habits penalize peopel for buying big gas hungry cars. However no politician has the you know what to do that, so they try and regulate the manufactuer. So now your making manufactuers ells cars people don't want, and have no reason to buy.

As for gas shortages, and whatever, I will beleive it when I see it. The last gas crunch was not because of a shortage of gas, it was because speculative investers rushed to oil when the housing market fell. The number of oil futures are limited, so when 10x more investors are trying to buy them, it drives the price of oil up. In 2008, oil was like tickle me Elmo at christmas. Every investor wanted it, and there were only so many to buy, driving the price up. That gas run up, broke the back of the economy, and killed demand, which ultimatly sent prices tumbling.

The current run up in gas is also not a supply issue, it is because the dollar is the weakest it has ever been. Look at the price of gold. A week dollar means it takes more dollars to buy a barrel of oil.

IMO, our own government economic policies right now are a way more immediate problem than any silly pie in the sky CAFE regs that will really never play out. That is part of the issue with this country, every 4 years we get a new government who blows everything up, and starts over. There was a lot of work done in the previous administration with fuel cells, which many see as better hybrids and what not. This administration does not like them, so eveything was thrown by the way side, and rewritten to support hybrids and electrics. Next administration will realize that these vehicles have issues in terms of battery materials shortages, and move back to fuel cells.

 

My father always said that the difference between the European/Japanese automakers and the Americans is that when the government issues a new regulation the foreign guys reach for their engineers. Whereas we reach for our lawyers and lobbyists.

Neccessity is the mother of invention. Remember how the US automakers and we hotrodders bitched about the first CAFE regs and that port electronic Fuel inject is tooo expensive, too high tech, too fancy shancy. Now all OEMS come with port sequential EFI and overdrive trannies!!

Pushing the technology is the answer not bitching about the gov't. Besides I would like my daughter to growup in country with clean air and not beholden to a bunch of Muslim Jihadist who take our wealth and send it back to us in the form of bombs. I don't maybe you guys like that arrangement.

And I do love my horsepower.

Here is something to chew on: http://www.tscombustion.com/technology.html

 

.....Except for the fact that Toyota is joining the protest according to the article.....

 

 

If the Volt counts as 230 mpg as GM was touting last year, then I think they could easily hit that target in 13 years. And the other OEM's have enough time to develop or license the same technology. There is no reason for small and mid-size cars NOT to be extended range EV's like the Volt. Most of GM's full size SUV's and light duty pickups have hybrid versions too. Yea, it is going to cost more, but if every small and midsize car went with a Volt-type powertrain, these numbers would be achievable.

The only problem I see is that the EPA will find a way to make the Volt not count as 230, even if GM shows that most customers use less than 5 gallons of gas per month to go 1200 miles.

 

where did you get this from, do you have anything to support this incorrect statement? Work on fuel cells is still being done, just because the media is giving more attention to the Volt, Focus EV and Leaf doesn't mean other technologies have been thrown away.

EV are hear NOW!! Hydrogen Fuel cells are another 10-20 years away from the mainstream. Electricity is already in every home and business. I couldn't find hydrogen to refill a car if I wanted to.

Also, fuel cell cars are electric cars. They just make their own electric, kind of like the Volt and Karma does with the gas engine. Volt could be a fuel cell car if they wanted it to be.

 

Great points. You can see the innovation in just the last few years. Just look at what GM has done since the 2008 oil spike. Malibu 33mpg, Equinox 32mpg, Cruze 42mpg, Camaro 29mpg. All huge advances (10-20%) from the cars that proceeded them in such a short period of time and without any real sacrifice in HP. In the case of the Camaro and Mustang MPG and HP both went up a lot.

 

Highway numbers are great and all but the combined number (the one that really counts) is still a long way from 62.

 

Actually the CAFE number is almost the same as the EPA highway number.

 

I already get 70 mpg on my DRZ400S. But freeze in the winter.
Smog? ... Talk to China. 1 coal Plt on line every 2 weeks. Yes, it blows over to Cal.
Engineers? Not a very popular career these days in the US. Liberals do not make good Engineers. I'm an Engineer, and, have worked with them (and there ain't many of them).
Liberals always legislate technical advances. This never works.
B.

 

What a load of garbage. I'm also an engineer and many of us are liberals.

 

Most higher educated and technical people I come across seem to lean liberal.