formula79

I would have loved the Coupe60. I love the Camaro..but it is also a butt on the floor, sitting in the bath tub F-body. The Coupe60 would have been more like the GTO which is a big, fast, comfy, 2 door Grand Tourer. Thats the Camaro's big problem now IMO..it has the size, ride, and power of a GT, but the same packaging and switch gear issues the 4th gen had.

siguy

yes well said while I love my 4th gen living with it everyday would be a pain if it was my only car .... (Just getting in and out of it to go to the local market is a pain .. and the doors are too heavy for you average girl to open (not saying woman are weak just the position of the seat and door makes it hard for a shorter person to open and that the fact the door is so long you sometime have to roll down the window to open the door so that you don’t ding the other car if it’s a tight spot)

if you look at the old 67-69 camaros you did not have this problem good seating position and short doors make it a nice grocery getter when you needed it and made it a nice car to live with if that was your only car. Gm always missed the point for your average joe when they set out to build these cars

notgetleft

That's what people said about the monaro too.

Z284ever

Yup. As Guy said, the Coupe 60 was the next GTO. Unfortunately, no one was left at Pontiac who even had clue number one on how to market Pontiac's most hallowed nameplate.

1fastdog

Yep.

CaminoLS6

And it did.

Still the best car I ever owned, and that includes my Firehawk.

guionM

I'm guessing you are aware that it would have been the GTO that followed the '04-'06 GTO.

When you said it looks better "than the GTO that was actually produced", it sounds like you think that this GTO should have been made instead of the one that came here, although in reality, it was that car's successor.

guionM

And it was!

The problem with the Monaro-come-GTO was IMO twofold.

1. The sales projections were ridiculous

Bob Lutz expected to sell 18,000 annually. If you look at the sales of the WS6 Trans Ams that preceeded it as well as sales of the Mustang Cobras (both similarly priced performance coupes), you start to wonder what exactly was Mr Lutz was consuming on his lunch breaks. $30K+ Cobras were selling about 10K annually, and $30K+ WS6 weren't selling very much more.

GTO's average annual production numbers came to a very competitive (for it's class) 14K cars annually.... actually better than WS6s and Cobras.


2. There was absolutely no imagination in converting the nose to a Pontiac!

Right after introduction, GM created this aftermarket grill for the GTO that was recessed, and 100 times better than the cheap almost flush looking afterthought that changed the whole front & the car's personality. Why GM didn't simply utilize this front end (even if they waited till the 2nd year) is baffling.


However, I still feel to this day (and the sales numbers during incentives and improved availability support this) the biggest problem the GTO had was that GM completely botched it's introduction by:

A. Disasterous early distribution (which sent GTOs to dealers that had the highest volume of sales.... which happened to be in the snowbelt....in the middle of winter...instead of the west coast and warmer parts of the country where the F-body and Mustangs were most popular)

B. Complete lack of any attempt whatsoever to reign in or counter dealer scalping and sales abuses (ie: requiring deposits to test drive, or even refusing test drives without signing an "Intent to purchase" agreement)

C. Not including GTO in promotions that went to the rest of GM vehicles (when GTO was included, sales more than doubled).


The Monaro made an exceptional GTO. It was the quickest GTO ever made. It was the fastest GTO ever made. It was in another universe over previous GTOs in the handling department. It had a top drawer interior. The original GTO was NOT a cheap muscle car like the SS or the Roadrunner, it was a slightly pricey Grand Tourer. The Monaro based GTO with it's Mustang Cobra-like and Trans Am WS6-like pricing fell right into that catagory.

It was supposed to be around only 3 years and it was.

It actually was the best selling car of it's type.

It actually outlasted the Monaro, which was killed off months before the GTO was.

Like the Camaro, new federal regulations (new generation passenger airbags, and the pointlessness of making the GTO conform when there was still a new replacement planned) killed the Monaro/GTO.


So, yes...... The Monaro made one awesome GTO.

It was still a great car..... and it sold very, very well for it's class... despite the missteps GM (and especially, Pontiac dealers!) took that would have killed off any other new car.

notgetleft

I know. But it seems many people in this thread think that the GTO we did get was somehow not just as great of an idea in the beginning as this seemed.

btw, i couldn't disagree more strongly about the recessed SAP grille. The flush nose was the most unique part of the GTO compared to the GP/GA standard pontiac nose at the time (which were both recessed). Combined with the short front overhang, it gave it a BMW-esque / clean look. Laugh if you want, but there was a point a couple years ago when i had a neighbor with a GA and a neighbor with a 3-series and parked side by side by side, the GTO was far more similar to the 3 than the GA from any angle.

imo, the single biggest detractor (ok, tied with initial price gouging) of the GTOs sales was the trunk. I know a lot of people that wanted to buy one as a DD, but got scared off by the trunk. I'm not talking tire kicking BSers; i mean people that were hardcore LSx fans that outgrew fbodies. I'm sure many others were just as shocked and scared off by it.

formula79

I do think the trunk killed sales. Also, the back seat access in the car was terrible. It had the best back seat in any sport coupe I can remember..sedan comfortable. The problem was, you had to nearly castrate yourself to get back there.

I also think that the 04 single side exhaust, and lack of hood scoops hurt it at launch. I personally disliked the exhaust setup enough on the 04 to strongly lean towards not buying it. The hood scoops I was 50/50 on however now I strongly prefer it. I have always thought that if the GTO launched in 04 with the car we got in 05, a lot of the bad karma would have been avoided.