Apple's Steve Jobs comment on automotive design
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From: five-one-oh/nine-oh-nine
Re: Apple's Steve Jobs comment on automotive design
Originally Posted by General Z
On the software side, itunes makes a complete mockery of the competitors. I had some free sony store songs. What a pain. Rhapsody isn't all that bad, but its no itunes.
Macs - for people who haven't a clue.
PCs - for people who know what they're doing.
until OS X, there was absolutely nothing redeemable about any modern Mac. All show and no go as they say. In other words rice. With OS X, at least there's a powerful unix kernel hidden beneith all the bubblegum eyecandy to warrent a Mac running it some due recognition. Then again, you have to be running a computer 10x more powerful than they use at mission control in Houston just so that it has the appearance of any speed whatsoever.
Plus if you're talking about running any serious business applications (business not art; you know things that actually make you money) you can drag your iMac into iTrashbin and save yourself the cost, trouble, headache and overhead.
Besides, WTF does Jobs know about design anyway? Didn't anyone watch Pirates of Silicon Valley? He's nothing but a hippie turn businessman. He knows much less of design than he carries on or others give him credit for. Given that, his words on the auto industry in any area carry 0 weight.
In any case, I'm this-close to getting my Computer Science degree if you can't tell.
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Re: Apple's Steve Jobs comment on automotive design
Originally Posted by morb|d
In any case, I'm this-close to getting my Computer Science degree if you can't tell.
LOL.
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From: five-one-oh/nine-oh-nine
Re: Apple's Steve Jobs comment on automotive design
Originally Posted by General Z
How close are you to getting your a$$hole degree?
LOL.
LOL.
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Re: Apple's Steve Jobs comment on automotive design
I'm hurting pretty badly right now.
Oh that's right, I've been working since 4 AM(20 hours ago), using the HP. I only had to restart once to be able to print, because the screensaver had kicked in at some point. You can forget about printing without restarting if the "DAMN BUILT IN FROM MICROSOFT" screensaver ever turns on.
Of course, I did take a break earlier to turn my chair to my imac and buy some new songs on itunes. (When WAS the last time I had to do maintenance on or restart my imac?)
I even made a new playlist on my ipod.
It was pure bliss.
Oh that's right, I've been working since 4 AM(20 hours ago), using the HP. I only had to restart once to be able to print, because the screensaver had kicked in at some point. You can forget about printing without restarting if the "DAMN BUILT IN FROM MICROSOFT" screensaver ever turns on.
Of course, I did take a break earlier to turn my chair to my imac and buy some new songs on itunes. (When WAS the last time I had to do maintenance on or restart my imac?)
I even made a new playlist on my ipod.
It was pure bliss.
Last edited by General Z; Oct 17, 2005 at 11:58 PM.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,440
From: five-one-oh/nine-oh-nine
Re: Apple's Steve Jobs comment on automotive design
Originally Posted by General Z
I'm hurting pretty badly right now.
Oh that's right, I've been working since 4 AM(20 hours ago), using the HP. I only had to restart once to be able to print, because the screensaver had kicked in at some point. You can forget about printing without restarting if the "DAMN BUILT IN FROM MICROSOFT" screensaver ever turns on.
Of course, I did take a break earlier to turn my chair to my imac and buy some new songs on itunes. (When WAS the last time I had to do maintenance on or restart my imac?)
I even made a new playlist on my ipod.
It was pure bliss.
Oh that's right, I've been working since 4 AM(20 hours ago), using the HP. I only had to restart once to be able to print, because the screensaver had kicked in at some point. You can forget about printing without restarting if the "DAMN BUILT IN FROM MICROSOFT" screensaver ever turns on.
Of course, I did take a break earlier to turn my chair to my imac and buy some new songs on itunes. (When WAS the last time I had to do maintenance on or restart my imac?)
I even made a new playlist on my ipod.
It was pure bliss.
Macs - for people who haven't a clue.
PCs - for people who know what they're doing.
PCs - for people who know what they're doing.
BTW, nowhere in that did I mention microsoft...
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,507
From: Okemos, MI
Re: Apple's Steve Jobs comment on automotive design
Originally Posted by morb|d
In any case, I'm this-close to getting my Computer Science degree if you can't tell.
I have a Mac at home. It's old -- 450MHz G4. I'm using it right now. I challenge you to set up a 450MHz Pentium III machine running the latest operating system, with all of the bells and whistles enabled, and it only reveals its age when you're doing CPU-intensive things like ripping MP3s. I restart it only when a software update requires me to do so, which is maybe once every couple months. It always works, and it never gets in my way. I'm using it to develop a PHP website in my spare time, and it doubles as a test server. This very computer was once the primary development machine for Mock Draft Central.com, but they couldn't afford me anymore.
I have a PC where I work now. Dual 19" LCDs, 2GB of RAM, hyperthreaded 3.4GHz P4, the works. XP Pro. From a hardware standpoint, it is lightyears ahead of my Mac. I use it to develop Java applications, and it also doubles as a test server running BEA Weblogic. It gets cranky if I don't restart it every day.
Originally Posted by morb|d
Macs - for people who haven't a clue.
PCs - for people who know what they're doing.
PCs - for people who know what they're doing.
Macs - for people that want a computer.
PCs - for people that want a hobby.
I don't have to "take care" of my Mac. It's always here, always ready. It always does what I tell it to do. It's a computer, and only a computer. A PC is a computer too, but its primary role in my life is as something which I need to take care of. It's like a dog that freaks out because it hasn't been let outside to pee in a while. As long as you remember to restart once a day, you'll be fine.
You said that PCs are for people that know what they're doing. True, because if you don't, you stand no chance of operating it successfully for any extended period of time. Likewise, you said that Macs are for people who haven't a clue. I'd argue that Macs are for people who want the computer to get out of the way so that they can get the job done.
It's more than just the restarting, too. There are so many little nitpicky things that it's not even worth getting into.
Pirates of Silicon Valley? Are you serious? You're using that as your reference? Why don't you try reading one of the many biographies written about him, or maybe a book on the history of Apple. Then, just maybe, you might find some respect for Steve Jobs' genius. He's a little kooky, and maybe a little hard to work for, but the man is a genius.
Originally Posted by morb|d
BTW, nowhere in that did I mention microsoft...
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 441
Re: Apple's Steve Jobs comment on automotive design
Nice post.
He has probably never used any version of OSX. He is probably coming from very limited experience from version 8 or 9.(both still better than ANY version of wnodows)
No PC running any kind of software that I have ever seen comes anywhere near the usability of a Mac.
The way all of the Mac software titles work flawlessly together is incredible. A pure amateur can sit down and in a few hours, he can create a decent looking movie and burn it to a dvd that will play in any dvd player.
And, it didn't cost hime 1 cent more than the cost of the computer to do it, since the Mac comes loaded with software.
Mybe some day Windows will steal some of the Mac ideas, like expose. But, perhaps not, as that would change what they are all about.........Being difficult to work with.
It's pretty funny that every new version of windows gets closer and closer to an older version of the Mac operating system. Yet, it still never works anywhere near as well.
He has probably never used any version of OSX. He is probably coming from very limited experience from version 8 or 9.(both still better than ANY version of wnodows)
No PC running any kind of software that I have ever seen comes anywhere near the usability of a Mac.
The way all of the Mac software titles work flawlessly together is incredible. A pure amateur can sit down and in a few hours, he can create a decent looking movie and burn it to a dvd that will play in any dvd player.
And, it didn't cost hime 1 cent more than the cost of the computer to do it, since the Mac comes loaded with software.
Mybe some day Windows will steal some of the Mac ideas, like expose. But, perhaps not, as that would change what they are all about.........Being difficult to work with.
It's pretty funny that every new version of windows gets closer and closer to an older version of the Mac operating system. Yet, it still never works anywhere near as well.
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From: Okemos, MI
Re: Apple's Steve Jobs comment on automotive design
I'm not sure Mac OS 8 or 9 were better than Windows 2003 Server, Enterprise Edition. I had an opportunity to work with that for a few months earlier this year. That was nice. Too bad it's $4,000 for a 25-client version, plus $40-50 per user above 25. 
Mac OS X Server is $499 for a 10-client version, and $999 for an unlimited client version. They don't overcomplicate it by making you pick between user licenses and device licenses. They don't give you a million different confusing options.
Okay, yes, most variations of Linux are free, but let me know how you're doing once you've put a price on the time it took you to download it, install it, configure it, and set up a secure three-node server cluster. You do value your own time, don't you?
I do. That's why I use a Mac.
Mac OS X Server is $499 for a 10-client version, and $999 for an unlimited client version. They don't overcomplicate it by making you pick between user licenses and device licenses. They don't give you a million different confusing options.
Okay, yes, most variations of Linux are free, but let me know how you're doing once you've put a price on the time it took you to download it, install it, configure it, and set up a secure three-node server cluster. You do value your own time, don't you?
I do. That's why I use a Mac.
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From: Okemos, MI
Re: Apple's Steve Jobs comment on automotive design
It all goes back to arguing Steve Jobs' credibility so that we can then discuss the applicability of his comment on automotive design. We're still on topic, I swear! 
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From: Sterling heights, Michigan.
Re: Apple's Steve Jobs comment on automotive design
Originally Posted by General Z
Jobs compares Apple’s design process to other companies. “You know how you see a show car,” Jobs says, “and it’s really cool, and then four years later you see the production car, and it sucks? And you go, What happened? They had it! They had it in the palm of their hands! They grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory! What happened was, the designers came up with this really great idea. Then they take it to the engineers, and the engineers go, ‘Nah, we can’t do that. That’s impossible.’ And so it gets a lot worse. Then they take it to the manufacturing people, and they go, ‘We can’t build that!’ And it gets a lot worse.”
My comment: I always complain about this and haven't attended NAIAS in a few years now, as I don't see much point because of the truths stated above.
Full article about the article below:
The October 24th edition of Time magazine features a cover story on Apple and how the company is different from others when it comes to designing new products. While Apple CEO Steve Jobs is featured on the cover holding the new fifth-generation iPod, most of the article is devoted to analyzing the design process at Apple. The cover story contains some choice quotes from a number of Apple executives, including Jobs, Jonathan Ive and Tony Fadell. A paid subscription is required to read the full article.
Time’s Lev Grossman says that there are two things going on inside Apple—collaboration and control. When it comes to a new product, it’s a joint effort—the company does not pass a product down the line, from team to team. “There aren’t discrete, sequential development stages,” explains Grossman. “Instead, it’s simultaneous and organic. Products get worked on in parallel by all departments at once—design, hardware, software—in endless rounds of interdisciplinary design reviews.”
Jobs compares Apple’s design process to other companies. “You know how you see a show car,” Jobs says, “and it’s really cool, and then four years later you see the production car, and it sucks? And you go, What happened? They had it! They had it in the palm of their hands! They grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory! What happened was, the designers came up with this really great idea. Then they take it to the engineers, and the engineers go, ‘Nah, we can’t do that. That’s impossible.’ And so it gets a lot worse. Then they take it to the manufacturing people, and they go, ‘We can’t build that!’ And it gets a lot worse.”
Time’s Grossman describes the “control” of Jobs: “Sure, Jobs is perfectly pleasant to be around. And he pays attention to what you’re saying, but if he disagrees with it… he’ll come storming back and hammer at you until you change your mind or at least shut up… In other words, Jobs is into control. In itself, that is of no real importance, except that in a lot of ways, Apple is an expression of Jobs’ personal ethos.”
Finally, Jobs talks of the new iPod’s potential. “There is no market today for portable video,” he says. “We’re going to sell millions of these to people who want to play their music, and video is going to come along for the ride. Anyone who wants to put out video content will put it out for this. And we’ll find out what happens.”
My comment: I always complain about this and haven't attended NAIAS in a few years now, as I don't see much point because of the truths stated above.
Full article about the article below:
The October 24th edition of Time magazine features a cover story on Apple and how the company is different from others when it comes to designing new products. While Apple CEO Steve Jobs is featured on the cover holding the new fifth-generation iPod, most of the article is devoted to analyzing the design process at Apple. The cover story contains some choice quotes from a number of Apple executives, including Jobs, Jonathan Ive and Tony Fadell. A paid subscription is required to read the full article.
Time’s Lev Grossman says that there are two things going on inside Apple—collaboration and control. When it comes to a new product, it’s a joint effort—the company does not pass a product down the line, from team to team. “There aren’t discrete, sequential development stages,” explains Grossman. “Instead, it’s simultaneous and organic. Products get worked on in parallel by all departments at once—design, hardware, software—in endless rounds of interdisciplinary design reviews.”
Jobs compares Apple’s design process to other companies. “You know how you see a show car,” Jobs says, “and it’s really cool, and then four years later you see the production car, and it sucks? And you go, What happened? They had it! They had it in the palm of their hands! They grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory! What happened was, the designers came up with this really great idea. Then they take it to the engineers, and the engineers go, ‘Nah, we can’t do that. That’s impossible.’ And so it gets a lot worse. Then they take it to the manufacturing people, and they go, ‘We can’t build that!’ And it gets a lot worse.”
Time’s Grossman describes the “control” of Jobs: “Sure, Jobs is perfectly pleasant to be around. And he pays attention to what you’re saying, but if he disagrees with it… he’ll come storming back and hammer at you until you change your mind or at least shut up… In other words, Jobs is into control. In itself, that is of no real importance, except that in a lot of ways, Apple is an expression of Jobs’ personal ethos.”
Finally, Jobs talks of the new iPod’s potential. “There is no market today for portable video,” he says. “We’re going to sell millions of these to people who want to play their music, and video is going to come along for the ride. Anyone who wants to put out video content will put it out for this. And we’ll find out what happens.”
Im not a cook, so i dont go around preaching how one should cook a peice of prime rib, he should do the same.
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From: Okemos, MI
Re: Apple's Steve Jobs comment on automotive design
Originally Posted by FutureZMan
Im not a cook, so i dont go around preaching how one should cook a peice of prime rib, he should do the same.
You're at a nice restaurant. You order a prime rib, cooked medium rare. The picture and/or description on the menu showed a VERY nice looking piece of meat.
You are served a tough, well-done, undersized cut of meat. It's not even prime rib, it's rump roast.
Do you complain?
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,080
From: Sterling heights, Michigan.
Re: Apple's Steve Jobs comment on automotive design
Originally Posted by JakeRobb
Imagine this:
You're at a nice restaurant. You order a prime rib, cooked medium rare. The picture and/or description on the menu showed a VERY nice looking piece of meat.
You are served a tough, well-done, undersized cut of meat. It's not even prime rib, it's rump roast.
Do you complain?
You're at a nice restaurant. You order a prime rib, cooked medium rare. The picture and/or description on the menu showed a VERY nice looking piece of meat.
You are served a tough, well-done, undersized cut of meat. It's not even prime rib, it's rump roast.
Do you complain?
You deal with exactly that everytime you order fast-food or prepared food.
Hell you think the Big mac looks anything like that gorgous burger on the menu? no..
I love going to steak house's and seeing this 1 in a million slice of beef on the page, and receiving some hacked to hell disfunctional slab.. (although the same relative size).
Its no different in the world of concepts, they show us unrealistic masterpeices to wet our whistle, when its time to order it never comes to the table the same way it looked on the page.
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From: Okemos, MI
Re: Apple's Steve Jobs comment on automotive design
Originally Posted by FutureZMan
You deal with exactly that everytime you order fast-food or prepared food.
Hell you think the Big mac looks anything like that gorgous burger on the menu? no..
I love going to steak house's and seeing this 1 in a million slice of beef on the page, and receiving some hacked to hell disfunctional slab.. (although the same relative size).
Its no different in the world of concepts, they show us unrealistic masterpeices to wet our whistle, when its time to order it never comes to the table the same way it looked on the page.
Hell you think the Big mac looks anything like that gorgous burger on the menu? no..
I love going to steak house's and seeing this 1 in a million slice of beef on the page, and receiving some hacked to hell disfunctional slab.. (although the same relative size).
Its no different in the world of concepts, they show us unrealistic masterpeices to wet our whistle, when its time to order it never comes to the table the same way it looked on the page.
I didn't mean to turn this into a debate about whether we should eat at crappy restaurants, though. I just meant to point out the flaw in your logic.
At a restaurant, the understanding is that the thing in the picture is what you're ordering, and it's really going to be that. I don't eat at restaurants that don't deliver on that promise.
With car companies, it's generally understood that the concept cars are just concepts, and that they may or may not make it into production as-is. Ford has been doing a good job lately of getting concepts through to production with minimal changes. Now they just need to build a car I might actually buy.
GM has a history of making neat concepts that are completely impractical as real production cars. The whole point Steve Jobs was making is that the concept guys should work with the rest of the development team more in order to make more realistic concepts.
If the chef tells the menu designer that he can't cook a good prime rib to save his life, maybe the menu designer wouldn't put it on the menu.
