This is going to be a horrible pun, but...

...I think what we're saying is it's pretty arrogant for someone to compare his 'apple' business to another's 'orange' business.

For instance...I don't recall computers having to meet 5 mph crash standards (oh boy, they keep coming) or the speed of companies computers meeting an industry average standard (like fuel economy).

And let's turn this around. For years we've seen concepts of flexible screens and paper thin monitors. How come my computer screen is still think and rigid? One could argue Mr. Jobs's has wrestled design from the jaws of victory.

 

That's the most asinine thing I've ever heard. I don't recall cars undergoing the ongoing scrutiny of every information security expert in the world, either. So what?
You think that Steve Jobs is the reason computers don't have flexible monitors? What gives you that idea? That sort of technology is only within reach of bleeding-edge researchers with big budgets right now. When/if it becomes both viable and affordable, you'll see it on computers. There's a good chance that the first place you see it is on an Apple product, too.

 

I highly doubt we will ever see any monitor technology exclusive on any apple workstation, thats just off to even assume.

Not trying to spark anymore debates with you, but come on

As long as it supports DVI | VGA cable and so on, it will be mass marketed. With that being said, the industry leader would probally be the first to offer it, and sorry to say thats not apple.

Maybe a dell

 

And thus, my personal/profesional issue with Steve Job's statement.

The exact same thing applies to concept and production cars.

 

Okay, so the fact that the first (and currently only) Dual-link DVI monitor on the market is an Apple monitor doesn't count?

Dell? Everything Dell has ever sold is somebody else's product, rebranded and repackaged. Dell has never been the first do do anything, technology-wise. Literally.

 

Fair enough. At least when Steve shows us something new and cool, though, he delivers on it.

 

I can see your a mac guy, and from my experiance im not gonna waste my time even arguing market shares and so on.

Very true about dell, but stock price and market share says a ****-load in a capitalist economy.

Apple is more of a "Gotta be different" company, the same as some of the automotive makers out there. They dream wild, and deliver wild yet still control the lesser end of the market (Digital imaging, Presentations and so-on aside) yet PC is the more widely accepted.

 

Arguing market share is pointless in a "which is better" discussion. I hate it when people use market share to explain how one product is superior to another. Ferarri has a tiny market share, and huge prices, but nobody ever says their cars aren't any good (well, except maybe the guys at Lamborghini, but that's not the point).

Stock price and market share have nothing to do with product quality. Stock price has to do with business viability. Are investors willing to bet that this company is going to continue to make money? Market share has to do with marketing and cost effectiveness. Do people know about the product? Can they afford it? Do they feel like it's worth the money? Market share is not directly affected by whether a product actually is worth the money -- only by whether people feel like its worth the money.

I think you need to spend some time reading about today's Apple Computer. Your opinions and information make it evident that the last time you really knew anything current about Apple was in the 1990's. For your own sake, go do some research. Today's Apple Computer is not about being different. They're about being powerful, elegant, and stylish, while still being easy to use. Making money is relatively low on the priority list when you compare Apple to Microsoft, Dell, etc. Their first priority is to deliver a product worth owning, using, keeping, and enjoying. They have to make money doing it, but they never disappoint with respect to those other ideals.

 

that doesn't make you right and me wrong.

First, I'm mostly an AMD guy. But unfortunately for you you're stuck with whatever Apple decides is best for you. And unless you haven't heard, Apple decided you're going to use Intel's procs now. Hmm.... Second, it might be a challange for you but I've been running either 2K or XP on one machine or another since '99... right around those P3/Celeron A haydays.. Still have a Pentium II 266 that's ticking with the latest build (at the time of install) of XP (with all the service packs, hotfixes, patches, security plugs, whathaveyou) installed with all the gunk and gliz that's useless taken out. Just a lean, mean, functional slipstream of XP. So, yeah. There goes your challange I guess..

I honestly can't remember the last time I had to restart my P2 266 mentioned about (its a file server tucked away in a closet)... At one point around '97-'99 I had a 486 running an ancient version of slackware for like over a year straight. In fact I was really bad and completely neglected it. It served as a NAT before the time when you could goto BestBuy and pick one up for $50. so what's your point?

maybe it somehow knows your a mac user? i dunno...

back in '92 when I was a kid, a friend of mine had one of those old macs with the color monitor built in... the one that would spit out the floppy if you dragged it to the trash bin. I thought it was really neat. I played around with it for the better part of a year. At my high school I basically acted as an IT guy for our library/career center macs. In 2000, I had a full time job that required me to do software testing on a mac for at least 2-3 hours out of the day. But by that time you're right, I didn't want to deal with it. In fact I dreaded it. Because if the '92 Mac seemed like an open sea of possibilities, the 2000 Mac was a container you had to contort yourself to get into. The industry had moved on you see, but the Mac hasn't.

if you're going to accuse me of bias, at least have enough ***** to admit your own...

sure, if you like getting the job done with an eye closed and one arm tied behind your back while high on elicit chemicals.

That movie is a much more common point of reference than any article on Jobs (except the one mention in the original post to all of us here). Speaking of which, Steve Jobs must be a genius in his own mind if he doesn't realize before speaking, how many people in the auto industry (some of whom may be his "fans") he put in the sh1tter by making those few blunt comments. If he was a designer working for Italdesign, I'd probably say "he has a point." But he "designs" plastic enclosures for a collection of parts one in the industry can get with rediculouse ease. You're kidding yourself if you think Apple designs a single stick of functional hardware they use in their machines or ipod or whatever else. He has no base to stand on. So forgive me if I don't take his word for it. And forgive me if I consider his comments asinine.

for all intents and purposes you can consider your OS X as RedHat (since you pointed it out) with a MacOS emulator and a Mac "skin". So how does that make your point stronger? You're running UNIX didn't you know??

hahaha!! I see your grandmother's email and raise you my grandmother's chat addiction... she doesn't even speak English... she had to paste Russian letters on the keyboard keys to have it make sense to her.

And besides, what's your point? Any browser looks similar enough running on any os. I wouldn't dream of making my grandmother setup ANY os. But she can program each of her 3 VCRs to record the shows she likes. Did you make yours setup a MacOS before she could check her email? I don't think so. I bet if I setup BeOS for her (assuming it was still just obscure instead of completely lost in oblivion) she'd feel right at home pulling open a web browser and downloading her daily puzzle game.

 

You're right, my degree doesn't make me right. I just wanted to establish a basis of credibility, the same as you did. And I still think you're an ***. You keep saying these asinine things like "didn't you know?" and "if you haven't heard," in a manner which is obviously intended to make me feel stupid. Guess what! I'm not stupid, I don't feel stupid, and you can quit doing that **** whenever you're ready to have a real, adult conversation about the merits of two modern operating systems. Read on.

Intel, AMD, whatever. I kind of wish Apple was switching to AMD rather than Intel, but Intel's mobile processors are a lot better these days and I think that's a major deciding point for Apple to made that choice.

Windows 2000 was released on February 17, 2000. I suppose you're one of those uber-nerds that uses pre-release versions whenever you can get them. Whatever.

You said "with all the gunk and gliz that's useless taken out." I said "with all the bells and whistles enabled." And I mean everything. True color, high monitor resolution (1600x1200), full text antialiasing enabled. All of it. Then you said you only use it as a NAT/file server. I'm talking about day-to-day use typical of a power user, including web browsing with tons of browser windows/tabs open, email, software development, chat, editing graphics, etc. My 450MHz machine handles all of that beautifully. There goes my challenge, indeed.

I don't know how you got this idea that I was talking about simple server machines. When's the last time you had to restart your primary, personal use machine?

Do you know what Mac model your "2000 Mac" was? Do you know which operating system it ran? It was most likely a leftover from the era of Gil Amelio, Apple's CEO before Jobs came back. They released some real crap during that time.

I don't think I said anything about bias, nor did I deny being biased myself.

This is ridiculous and irrelevant.

Common point of reference? Yeah, okay. That doesn't have anything to do with the fact that the movie was a dramatized version of what really happened, which was my point in the first place. If you're going to make arguments about a man's character, his equivalent character in a "based on a true story" movie is not exactly the best point of reference.

Do you honestly think Jobs wasn't trying to stir things up in the automotive industry?

Jobs doesn't design the plastic enclosures. Jonathan Ive does. Just because a lot more people actually care about the way a car looks doesn't mean that Ive and Jobs care any less. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that Jonathan Ive is more meticulous about his designs than any automotive designer currently at GM. His dedication and obsessiveness are obvious in interviews, and it's really amazing the kind of attention to detail he puts into the physical design of a computer.

Apple designs their own motherboards. They purchase a lot of off-the-shelf components in order to keep costs from skyrocketing, but you talk as if a Mac is exactly the same inside as an x86-based PC. Obviously, that's not true.

This is ridiculous. I'm pretty sure they have "Aqua" skins for Linux. Go install one and let me know how easy to use it is.

Okay, so this backfired on me, but only because your grandmother is actually fairly tech savvy. The grandmother thing is a way to point out how someone who doesn't know anything about computers can still use a Mac.

My grandmother's computer came with OS X already installed (like every new Mac), but yes, I would trust my grandmother to install Mac OS X on her own. It's that easy. All you have to do is click your location on a map of the world (to determine time zone and language) and enter your name.

I'm tired of reading your misleading, uninformed, and asinine arguments. I'm tired of you trying to make me feel stupid and failing. I'm tired of you. I don't want people like you in the Mac community. If, some day in the future, Mac OS ever has the majority market share, I hope you stick with Windows and suffer.

Please don't respond.

 

Battle Royale!

Im done with this convo.

 

Nothing like a good old Mac versus PC chicken fight.

But I do so love how the generic Mac user fawns over their Macs but when you ask them WHY they like it...

"Because it looks cool."

Case in point my girlfriend. I to Apple's brainwashing ermmm...marketing campaigns.

 

Yup...never thought I'd come to a car board and find a mac/pc pissing match...

 

If I wasn't held to the criteria it must run either Solidworks or Pro-E, the fact it 'looks cool' weighs alot with me (maybe because I'm a designer, I dunno) and would probably sway me to an apple product, because it's not the typical gray box.

 

you got me, I was off by 2 months...

If my P2 cost as much as a new automobile when I originally bought it (like your Mac) it would have 0 problem handling all the things you mentioned. Not that I'd ask it to. I gutted 2k and XP for a reason. The same reason I don't want to deal with a MacOS. Useless doodads that just get in the way.

I had another machine (a crappy Celeron 300A), I gave to my dad to use in the office. He used it for about 2 years. The only times it was restarted was the times I did it myself (not that often since I'm 400 miles away) or the times I told him to do it. It ran for months at a time without anyone rebooting it for any reason.

On my personal machine, I've had it running for almost a week. And even then I only shut it down to install a new piece of hardware (video card). Before that, who knows, maybe a month but probably more. Are you satisfied?

I really don't know why your particular PC is running so poorly and why you keep perpetuating this rebooting myth. But I can't relate to your experience there.

So if a GM exec (for example), or maybe some big shot from Boeing got up on a podium and start out by saying something like, "you know how you might think a Mac is the greatest thing until you want it to do something and it turns out you have to upgrade. but when you go to upgrade and you either find that upgrade doesn't exist or it costs arm+leg from apple." you'd be ok with that?

oh, wow really? So does Dell, HP, Gateway, IBM (since before Apple), etc, etc, etc.

exactly? of course not. no two PCs look exactly the same inside. But they look similar. Apple doesn't make anything that goes into their machines. Period. And that which they do "design" is something that has to be handled by ANY PC manufacturer that offers a full system with warranty and support. Dispense with your "Apple makes their own hardware" myth once and for all.

when was the last time you bought a PC from a major vendor without windows preloaded? It's nearly impossible unless you jump through hoops.

you picked on MY comment which wasn't even directed at you specifically. and now you're tired of ME? if you didn't want to hear back from me, why did you bother? oh, you were going to ride in on your high horse and "educate" me and I was going to agree with you, huh... next time you want to call someone an "opinionated ***", look in the mirror.