I'm sorry guy's. I love GM. I've owned, bought, and driven nothing but General Motors cars and trucks all my life. Brand new ones and old one's. Restored a couple too. I truley do not understand what the hell GM is thinking lately.They have killed my beloved Camaro and Trans/Am, both with a rich and respected heritage. I guess they think importing a holden, slapping on a 30 year old dead GTO badge on it will make us feel better. Not happening.
It's sad enouph the lowly state of the current FWD 6 cylinder Caprice/Impalla. Now i hear Buick wants to join the gutless fleet of underpowered slugs the General is putting out with a FWD 6 cylinder GSX with SLP upgrades. I don't blame SLP, they are a business trying to make money. They can only do the best they can with the junk GM gives them to work with.
GM trying to make real performance cars/trucks reminds me of 70 year old music executives trying to figure out what music teenagers like.
How could they get the Vette so perfect and fail in EVERY other area?


2000 Ram Air Trans/Am
92 Firebird
79 Z/28

------------------
THE Z-MAN

 

many have pointed to years of Zerella-ism.

as far as the GTO/Monaro goes, you might be ignorant of the situation. the new Holden "import" is more than deserving of the GTO badge. and I wouldn't be complaining about it in the same sentence as the buick and camaro.

 

I have to agree with what Morbid said about the Holden/GTO thing. It's about as much a muscle car as it gets and I don't see nothing wrong with them badging it as the GTO. I've read what some of the purists in here have to say about it but I don't agree.

Having said that, I also am getting upset with GM. Not just because of Camaro but because of the whole attitude lately. I'm also starting to become concerned with their quality. Funny you mention the Vette. Wasn't it named the worst Vette, or was it car, ever made in terms of Quality by consumer reports or someone like that? That's a pretty damning statement. Also, my parents recently bought a Blazer, 2001 model I think. Piece of junk. Steering wheel column hits your knees no matter how you adjust things. Been serviced multiple times, etc. I know others who normally buy GM having problems lately when they never did before.

My sister and husband recently bought a used Ford Expedition with 90k miles on it. 1999 model I think, not sure. Thing looks and runs good. I couldn't help but wonder if that was a GM model with that many miles, would it look as good, run as good, and would I have bought it? I found myself answering 'no' to each of those. Mom was thinking about getting rid of the Blazer and getting the Trailblazer since intrests rates are so low and such. But that thing has been recalled a **** load of times. I think GM as a whole has a big problem they need to seriously address. Just my 2 cents.... cya!

[This message has been edited by cmsmith (edited July 01, 2002).]

 

Good god, man. If you're giving up on GM now, what did you do from the late 70s to late 80s/early 90s?

 

That is 100% true
and that is why I am not going to wait a new 5th gen, maybe a new 05 stang or someting like a LS1



------------------
1995 Red Z28
98 Z28 Wheels
White Face Gauges
Moroso CAI
Air Foil
Hookers Headers
Dyno Max Muffler
LT4 Knock Module
Reprogramed Computer

 

Folks, Don't give up on GM just yet! If by 2005 the things I now say don't happen then give up!

RWD GM performace is not dead at GM. Expect 1-2 RWD midsize vehicles to be built. And wear names like Monte Carlo, Grand Prix.

The GTO may not live up to your standards yet but none of use here have actually seen a real example nor driven one! I say hold out till then. The Holden Monaro is one sweet performer. I have a feeling many of the naysayers here will be biting their respective tounge's when the car arrives. Sure the style is not crazy and it looks a lot like the Monaro well it is a Monaro. Which happens to look a lot like a Grand Prix or Catera well it's close to that too. But no GP and certainly no Catera will perform like this car. In the 60's you could have gotten down on GM for slapping a Italian classic touring name on a Temepest, but somehow it became cool because the GTO flat out started a muscle car revolution. So don't be mad that GM put GTO on a Monaro. After all none of these cars can hold a candle to the REAL GTO's with prancing horses on the emblems!

Silverado SS, personally I like the style I think it looks very clean but aggressive. Sure its not a Lighning beater and it my pale in comparison to a Hemi Dodge (if its built) but with AWD and 345hp it sure won't be a Slouch!

Camaro future well lets just say do you believe in reincarnation??

------------------
2002 Z28 white/neutral A4 3.23
13.33 @ 104.7 - 650 miles
286rwhp/311rwtq - 1300 miles
STOCK for now!
Gone but not forgotten,
1999 Silver SS 6M #3956
1997 Black Z28 A4 3.23
------------------
Ryan S.

 

What FWD 6 cylinder Caprice?????

 

While I wish it was RWD, I really do, where do we get this constant 6 cylinder Impala banter? They weren't all SS models people. Honest. There have been millions upon millions of 6 cylinder Impala models produced over the years. Honest.

 

You know, all this anti-GM rhetoric is bull$hit! Yeah, GM has faltered in terms of performance cars for middle-income folks like myself, but overall in the scheme of things, they are very much alive and well. They have the highest ranking in terms of quality amongst the Big Three and are tied with Nissan for 3rd spot behind Honda and Toyota according to J.D.Power in terms of problems per 100 cars. The Vette is the best selling performance car over $40K, TrailBlazer now outsells the former #1 Explorer, Cadillac Deville is the best selling premium luxury car in the U.S., Tahoe is the best-selling fullsize SUV. You guys cry about the Impala and Malibu being FWD and V6's, but they far outsell the models they replaced and are built way better. Plus, how much of a legend was a Malibu or an Impala? Please guys, they nowhere near carried as much street credibility as a Vette, Camaro, or the mighty Chevelle.

Right now I believe GM is in a state of rebuilding, but if you pay attention and quit whining you can see the light at the end. Common sense would tell you guys that it's the bread & butter models that have to sell and keep the company afloat before they can splurge and flex some enthusiast muscle to get the performance cars out. The Mustang lives not because of the GT's and Cobra's, but because of the V6 models! Do you think a 380hp Lightning would have been possible if Ford didn't sell hundreds of thousands of F150's a year? Funny thing is that Ford ranks last in quality amongst the Big Three. GM has now officially organized a performance wing to counter Ford's SVT and Daimler-Chrysler's PVO counterparts. All I can say is things are looking up and the GTO is the first of many things GM has up it's sleave.

I can tell you firsthand former GM head Zarrella is a moron because he now has returned to his once former position at the company I make a living at...Bausch & Lomb. I work at the only profitable division B&L has and has kept the company afloat for the past 2 years, yet rampant rumors are circulating that they are selling this division to another firm. WTF? I came to the company with stocks at $80.00+/share, now it barely breaks $30.00. Of course there are other factors contributing to this, but if B&L sells it only profitable division, that doesn't make sense at all to me. Seems to me GM is better off now that Zarella is gone.

------------------
'81 Turbo T/A
-'75 Pontiac 400
-Richmond 5-speed/3.70's
-Holley 650cfm 4-barrel on 1/2 in. spacer, blocked exhaust crossover, 160* thermostat, Blackjack 1-5/8 in. 4 tube headers, Thrush 2-1/4in. dual exhaust kit w/ Thrush California Turbo mufflers, no A/C-no emission controls; drunk bitch induced front-end damage, placed on indefinite hiatus.

'97 Z-28
-LT1 350
-Borg Warner T56 6-speed
-descreened MAF, blocked off air silencer, TB bypassed, Flow Tech Warlock 3in. muffler w/ built-in cutout, Moroso CAI, custom cold air scoop = 277.7 rwhp/ 301.9 rwtq; add-on's since last dyno = Hypertech airfoil and 160* thermostat, B&M Ripper.

 

My profession has been bringing me into contact with B&L for years now. I was around when Ronnie Z. ran B&L the first time around.

His perception, that effective branding of outdated products could bring success....nearly brought the B&L juggernaut to it's knees. He had equal success(?) employing this identical strategy at GM.

I'm glad GM is rid of him....but how many of his cohorts remain?

 

Now, I never profess to be an expert at everthing, but the last figures I have seen show the Explorer is still outselling everything handily. Now, if you add the Trailblazer, Envoy, Bravada together.... then it becomes closer..... but I have always thought that is a chickens**t way to figure things.

Ford Explorer YTD figures (Jan 02-June 02): 195,845 units

Chevy Trailblazer sales (Jan 02-June 02): 113,136 units

GMC Envoy sales (Jan 02-June 02): 46,337 units

Olds Bravada sales (Jan 02-June 02): 8,376

Total sales for GM triplets: 167,849 units

If you add in S10 blazer sales, you are really grasping at straws, since it isn't even the same vehicle. Based on that idea, I guess we can add Escape figures into the Explorer ones.

PS, there were also 21,241 Mercury Mountaineers sold, but I won't add that to the Explorer sales..... since it is a different model.


------------------
Gloria
93 EB Explorer, 1000RTI
94 F150 Lightning, 116,000 miles
01 F150 Lightning, FAST !!!!

 

uhhh.... did you happen to think about it that at least a V8 was an OPTION?



------------------
Mike
It's a 5.7 Liter container of Whoop ***
Caution: Do not mix with rice
99 Z28 M6

Stereo Pics

 

I don't think GM is ever going to have an SUV that outsells Exploder, considering the current Exploder's bland styling and weaker powertrain is still outpacing the Trailblazer.

Oops, I meant Explorer.

------------------
Mark

94 Z28, Red, A4, 3:23
Lone Mods--LPE CAI, !Lapeer Dragway.
(Hey, I'm a college boy I can't afford gobs of bolt-ons!)

Best time: 14.658 @ 95.1
with SES light on and Driver off! (First and only time at track)

The F-body will NEVER die.

 

Yes, I did. And while we would all like a rear drive V8 powered Impala right now I can say with some conviction that the current Impala is probably just as fast and a much better handler than 85% of the cars to ever wear the name. Don't get me wrong, I love the classic musclecars and nothing being made today can even touch them for "cool," and that awesome rumble, but most V8 Impalas just weren't that fast.

 

HaHa! Cute! Very funny! But seriously folks...

Do any of you catch on to this issue that POWER alone does not guarantee sales?!?! The Tailburner, with it's 270hp, outpowers the Explorer just like the Z28 outpowered the Mustang, right? Yet they are both being heavily outsold by the lower-powered vehicle. Any guesses why?
What do people (make that - BUYERS) want?

I just drove a new Trailblazer a few weeks ago on a business trip. My experiences were mixed. I thought the ride was superb and the torque was nice. Also the seats were very comfortable on the long trip. Nice steering wheel too. However, I was very unhappy with visibility - especially out the rear side glasses and rear view. All I could ever see were headrests. The controls/***** (especially climate/radio) were awkward to use and hard to see at dawn/dusk. And so on... I HONESTLY don't have the same grumbles about driving convenience with my Eddie Bauer Explorer. I don't want this to turn into a critique about SUV's in this forum, but instead to show that I do experience what the competition is offering with an open mind.

Point is, power alone doesn't sell cars/SUVs. It must be a well-rounded package of reliability and features that the public wants. Ford doesn't have 5 of the top 10 best sellers in the US because they are "lucky". Their feedback program and commitment to the customer's desires are what is working here.

Like we (myself and others) have said in other posts, GM would be well advised to start listening and acting on what is being asked for in forums like this, performance-related or otherwise. But you all have the responsibility of asking for realistic "things" and offering solutions to the problems that might arise - not just b1+ching or waiting for someone else to change things.

Aside, an awesome thread going on here!
This is the kind of thread/content that DOES get printed-off and handed around at meetings in GM's management - I assure you. This is just a difficult step that's required to start making things better. Keep it clean, but keep it heartfelt - change will come.

Peace.