I'm not sure what you are trying to ask me.

Yes, GM has developed a new smaller-than-Zeta rear drive architecture.

Yes, that new architecture is going to Cadillac and will create 3 Cadillac models. A sedan, a coupe, and to date, a wagon.

It's no secret that this chassis (which will be modified from Cadillac's version) will see likely wider usage no sooner than a couple of years after Cadillac debuts it in both sedan and as the jump off point for creating the next F-body. Bob Lutz even hinted at that in public, so it's not exactly a trade secret.

Everything you read about the car commonly known as the ATS' size is was created by someone and repeated so many times that some take it as fact.

The ATS is NOT going to be smaller than a Cruze (which the BMW 3 series actually is).

The Alpha architecture most likely to be the starting point of larger midsized cars for 2 reasons:

1. If fuel prices skyrocket again and stay in the stratosphere, the Alpha will become the key replacement chassis for downsized "family" cars.

2. Think for a moment. Does it make any financial, business, or common sense to produce a vehicle that competes in size to an existing FWD based chassis? GM like any other business doesn't blow limited cash on follies. If GM (like Ford, Chrysler, or Toyota, or anyone else) is going to create a chassis, it's going to be for a purpose, and it's going to certainly be worth their while.

I could also go into the huge gapping hole that would exist between the CTS and the ATS if the ATS was the size of a 3 series. Although no one's talking yet, pictures of the mule (hiding under the existing CTS' skin) seem to indicate a car about the size of the Pontiac G6... the LWB version of the Espilon architecture...around 187 to 190" long.


Now, bouncing to Camaro, if you are looking for some tidbit of information, I will tell you wholeheartedly, honestly, and directly: THERE IS NOTHING TO REPORT!!!. Anyone that tryes to telly you otherwise, tries to hint anything, tries to imply anything, or even says anything is (again, my favorite word) "confirmed" is simply feeding you BS.

Quite honestly, at this point (assuming the next Camaro even keeps it's expected debut of 2016...and that's not even certain since we don't know what will happen in the market the next few years) anything involving the 6th gen Camaro is no more than surveys and feedback from buyers of the current Camaro, reading thoughts and notes from websites, and a whole lot of daydreaming.

That's all folks.

Any engineers or planners who would be putting together the 6th gen Camaro are completely consumed getting the Cadillac Alpha together. Other engineers are hard at work on other projects like the upcoming Malibu, the next Impala, the next Silverado, even Team Corvette is busy getting the next Corvette together. Holden is busy both cutting weight and upgrading the Zeta and working with North America on the Alpha.

Camaro isn't on anyone's project list at this point. And it's not looking like anyone's going to be picking it up for at least a couple of years.

Again, keep in mind that Camaro's production numbers are so low that they aren't going to adversly affect CAFE enough to make dowsizing an immediate priority.

With Zeta weight savings Holden is working on, combined with more than plenty of fuel saving tricks still available on the Camaro (direct injected V8s, turbocharged V6s, gearing, jacking up the price of V8 Camaros to encourage more V6 purchases and utilizing V6 engines with up to 350 horses...supposedly, the 3.6 is capable of that now normally aspirated), GM could very easily and without drawbacks keep the current Zeta architecture under the Camaro for another decade with nothing more than restylings if they wanted to and the sales stayed good, and the feedback showed customers prefered the Camaro as is.

So steve, if you are asking if there's anything I know that I'm holding back, this pretty much covers the whole thing.

it's far and away too early for any speculation on the Camaro's future, or any potential 6th gen.

Focus on the current Camaro and how to make it better.

Save a reskinning and a interior freshening, we're going to see it for quite a while.

 

I will say this agin.

The future is in V6s.

Yes, V8s will still be available. However, in the direction they are going is that you're going to pay through the nose for them. Consider now you're paying on average about $10,000 for a V8 engine. Expect that to double in the next 8 years.

Yet, you are going to have V6s that will outperform V8s of just a few years ago. You are already seeing some of that today. V6 Mustangs today not only will rape LT1s and make LS1s work for a living, today's V6 Mustangs will outrun the original Boss Mustangs by a wide margin. The current V6 Camaro will run with LT1s. Challenger's new V6 puts it on par with Fox 5.0 Mustangs, if not quicker.

And there's more power coming to V6s in the very near future.

The next step in V8s is DI and DOD. The number of cars with V8s will be so low that it simply won't matter what size they are.


BTW: That "Cadillac ATS will have a 470 horse V8" is pure BS. It started as a poll in C&G and another website decided to run it as if it was official and other websites picked it up as fact.

A prime example of how the web (and it's herd mentality) actually works.

 

That is why I said it was speculation. I was also pointing out that it was incorrect because they are saying that the 6.2L will go into it when I believe that the next generation V8s from GM are going to be 5.XL. I never said anything about V6s.

 

Not sure what the Cruze really has to do with it, but Cruze and 3 Series are pretty similar in size. (Cruze is 2.7 inches longer, 328i sedan is just under an inch wider, on a longer wheelbase, Cruze is 2 inches taller). If the ATS comes in much bigger than that, it will be on top of the CTS.

CTS has been pitched as a 3 Series fighter, even though the first gen was already closer to a 5 than a 3 in size. (Sized like a 5, priced like a 3,) The second gen CTS grew a little bigger, especially in width (and weight), making it even more of a stretch to call it a direct 3 Series competitor, at least based on size classes.

Unless the CTS is going to grow again to be a full 5 or 5/7 competitor, why would the ATS not be around the size of a 3 Series?

 

Too bad about the price of V8s skyrocketing. I am not interested in a Camaro or Mustang with a V6, even a very powerful or boosted one. I need that V8 sound. If the new V8s are out of my price range, that my interest in pony cars disappears with it. It is sad, but it has been coming for a while I guess. I am keeping my GTO for a while along with my Firehawk but who knows, maybe my next car will be a boosted Regal

 

I heard first hand from a reliable source that the C7 Corvette will come with a 7 speed manual transmission.

 

If that is the case, I am going to guess it will be a dual-clutch automated manual (finally!).

No way there will be a 7 speed stick on the floor.

 

100% Agree with you on this Guy. In fact, I believe this is the path Camaro should take. Sure everyone wishes it weighed a little less, and perhaps there is a market for an Alpha based Chevrolet sedan or coupe (someday). However based upon how popular the 5th gen Camaro has become, and how little its impact is on CAFE because of is lower volume, I see no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Let GM improve on the current platform and draw in buyers who are currently on the fence, or who might not currently consider Camaro, and focus their new product development elsewhere. (At least until the recession is over.)

 

It is because V8's have become so powerful. Too powerful for their own good. A 300-399hp pony car used to need a V8 to make those kind of numbers. Today though that is V6 territory. The 5.7L Hemi Charger/Challenger will be the last of the sub 400HP V8 muscle cars. Everything from here on out that is under 400HP will be a V6.

With the expanded use of turbos and HCCI and other technologies coming, by 2020 you probably won't find any gasoline car with 350HP and under with more than 4cyl. And just think, as recently as 2004, 350HP is what GTOs and Corvettes put out with their 5.7L V8 engines.

 

Oh come on Guy.
I've read on this very site how everyone on the Camaro team knows that it's 300 pounds overweight and they've already approved the new lightweight M3-beater Z28 Camaro on Alpha.

I thought that was a done deal!

 

Yeah with sequentials I'll believe just about any number but I seriously doubt we will ever see more than 6 gears in a traditional manual outside of large trucks.

 

Til' 114 MPH anyway.

 

how about a 7th gen? lol

 

That discussion will start as soon as someone is disappointed in some aspect of the 6th gen.

 

I am unhappy with how the 6th gen is developing a turbo'ed 4 cyl? lighter weight? a 5.5 litre V8???!!!!