Screw E85! We can buy biodiesel in California, but we cannot buy E85. Talk about not having the infrastructure.

 

I didn't say you HAD to use E85. The cars just have to be CAPABLE of using E85. Read my previous post. There's a loophole for dual-fuel vehicles that takes the increased fuel economy rate for alternative fuel vehicles and the vehicle's gasoline fuel economy rate and averages them out. A dual-fuel vehicle that gets 15 MPG is rated at 40 MPG for CAFE purposes, regardless of how much or how little E85 is actually used.

Imagine what a V6 Camaro that gets 35 MPG on gasoline and is E85-capable would be rated at for CAFE purposes.

 

I know I was just venting about E85 not being available here. I'd certainly buy an E85 vehicle if available. However if biodiesel also has the same loophole (its also an alternative fuel) then wouldn't the average mpg be even greater as diesels get better mileage to begin with?

 

Yes, but we're talking about the Camaro being CAFE-friendly while still keeping true to its heritage. My idea exploits the loophole without having to resort to diesel or 4-cylinder engines.

 

Heritage smeritage. At some point in time gasoline, E85, diesel and even biodiesel will become extict as a fuel source. What then? Cancel Camaro for good because a nuclear fission reactor wouldn't follow Camaro's heritage? Eventually Camaro is going to have to evolve, which is what I believe the original intent of this thread was.

If we want Camaro to survive as a RWD pony car past 2020 and beyond, we're going to have to overlook some of these so-called "heritage" beliefs, otherwise production will no longer be viable.

 

Couple of things...

I don't think that the E85 loophole is all that big, at some point it closes completely - I think 2015.

The other thing is a 250 hp V6. Unless such a V6 pulls out incredible mpg numbers, it will be ridiculed. Like I said, by 2010, 280 hp or up will be an entry level for a V6.

 

I think by the time oil is no longer used for fuel, cars as we know them will no longer exist.

 

Maybe we don't have to ditch the styling, cues, and profile of the car though... just it's drivetrains.
You don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

My point was to begin opening people's eyes to other possible powerplants that offer great mileage and performance that is "tolerable", JUST TO PERMIT GM TO MAKE THE TOP-DOG V8 that all of us in this forum would want in our personal garage.
IMO, that is the only way we will get it (and keep it).

 

Right. That's why people shouldn't get hung up on cylinder count.

A 2008 Malibu with a 2.4l 4 cylinder is faster than a 1970 Malibu 350 2bbl V8. Forget about the 250 I6 base engine (around 110 net hp in a 3500 pound car).

Extrapolating future results from earlier generations, basing merely on cylinder count, is really missing the point.

The mild hybrid Malibu gets just over 35 CAFE mpg. If a gen 6 Camaro weighs less than the Malibu (hopefully?), that should be a piece of cake. If they can keep the weight at 3000 pounds for a 4 cyl model, it should even perform decently, especially if they've gone to DI, full VVT by then. 190hp, 3000 pounds. You're looking at low 15 1/4s. Hardly a dog.

 

Maybe a 1.6L turbo with a full hybrid would provide enough performance for a future base Camaro and still get over 40 mpg.

 

Yep. It would be expensive, but not slow.

The Toyota Camry hybrid has an EPA combined number of 45.94, yet it also does a 1/4 in around 15 1/2.

It stands to reason that a 1.6 turbo in a lighter car with a hybrid system and another 5 years of development would be both faster and get better mileage, or much faster with the same mileage.

 

It's only a couple days to go till the Coupe-60 concept goes on show so here's everything I know about it

Some facts on Coupe-60 for you

Number plates are billet alloy "coupe-60".
It is a Commodore 4 seater coupe, similar to the bmw and merc 4 seater coupes. It has an E85 badge on the rear boot and a small lip spoiler. It has LED tail lights with a defuser set up under the rear fascia. An almost V8 supercar front fascia sitting on roughly "22'' wheels with cut slick tyres and single centre wheel nuts. The Interior has a Motec type dash and almost race type seats front and rear but leather bound. The colour is a chrome type silver. The door panels are scolloped inwards with front vents on the guards. There are two square exhaust outlets infront of the rear wheels under each sill panel. The car has been circuit tested and is a fully functional car.

My independent sources have been involved with both the building of the car and the testing of it and getting everything ready for the show. Only a couple of sleeps left now

 

So this will be off of the current Zeta architecture?

 

Yes but upon looking back at the descriptions I've been given I have to wonder if it's not just a "Holdenified" version of the Camaro? but I was told it's a "Commodore coupe" so it must look like a Commodore, well it's only a couple more days so lets see. I haven't seen it for myself either, so it's a bit hard to imagine

 

Agreed 100%!