It's nice for a Buick/Opel. I like the GS's alot better though.

 

It's not entirely accurate. It's been bastardized!!!

Charlie left out the frequently applied word, "relatively", from its definition. In this context, an American compact was about as big and heavy as a large European car. Size requirements in the US have not changed, last time I checked.

Case in point: Second Gen Camaro was 500lbs heavier than the Third Gen yet they were considered 'pony cars'.

 

Before the 5th Gen came out, I saw a drawing that I just loved. It was a bit of an evolution of the 4th gen, but more upright and it carried some of Cadillac's A&S theme. 4th gen cues in the rear, and some A&S in the front. Kinda of off topic, but I really liked it at the time.

I really like that Regal GS interior.

 

How do you define "relative"? The Camaro is a large car in this market and a H-U-G-E car in Europe and Asia - relative or otherwise. I think you are defeating your own argument.

The size of cars changed pretty dramatically from 1970 to 1982, so the Camaro's "relative" exterior dimensions were always considered compact.

Speaking of which, what a magnificent game changer that was for Camaro. In one fell swoop, it got smaller, lost a quarter ton of mass, got dramatically modern sheetmetal and best in class chassis dynamics. Like I said earlier - GM can only pray to create a similar splash with the 6th gen.

 

You answered your own question... no matter if we're referring to different countries or different era, it's still relative. Under that broader definition, the current Camaro is every bit the pony car that Mustang is as they're are around the same size (i.e. same relative compactness ) .

We'll be seeing a history repeat of the 2G-to-3G scenario once 6G rolls around.

Kevin Bartlett's Ch9 Camaro:


When I was a wee lad, there was nothing as aggressive looking as this 2nd Gen Camaro. I didn't know anything about car weights, all I knew is that I liked this car very much... and still love it! It was my first ever sighting of a Camaro. I've never been into the 3rd/4th Gen cars and have always preferred the Corvette's lines and looks to the 3rd/4th Camaros.

My views still haven't changed since all those years ago. I guess neither have yours.

 

An evolution of a retro car can be an awesome thing....look at the mustang really as a good example!

 

You're losing me. ?????

 

Well you're arguing the 5G is not a pony car because its too large and heavy... but I'm implying that by your same definition, you consider Mustang is a pony car. But wait, there isn't a big size difference between the two - they're almost the same size. So how is one more compact than the other?

Now let's drill down to your signature shall we?

Now that means different things in different countries/continents does it not?

That's why the term 'relative' is important here because what is relatively compact in the USA is not compact in the eyes of the Europeans.

You cannot say a BMW 1-series is a compact while also including Camaro and Mustang in the same sentence. You're using the term 'compact' to suit your own interpretation of the term and its relevance to weight and size.

There is no way that the Camaro or Mustang are compact cars... so when did they stop being 'pony cars' (i.e. compact cars)?

Will the Alpha based 6G be the size of the BMW 1-series? I doubt it, but will it fit in with your idea of a pony car?

 

I see. Your objection is with my signature.

Well......maybe this Camaro is NOT a pony car after all. You are quickly convincing me of that.
In fact, the Camaro Team specifically told me that they wanted to get away from that term for this car.

Maybe they'll rediscover the term on the next car. I hope so....

 

Charlie's signature could apply to a Tiburon, Scion TC, Celicas, Cobalt coupes, etc. Depending on how much importance one wants to give to the word "affordable", one could argue that these FWD coupes are much closer to that definition of pony car than a modern Camaro or Mustang could ever be.

As far as I can tell, Car & Driver uses a more self-referential definition (though that may be a somewhat ironic usage) where the current Mustang and its direct competitors are pony cars.

 

You're not going to try to claim that the signature was not always intended to hammer home that very point, are you? Your agenda is very clear, and please don't try to claim that you don't have one.

I don't expect a Camaro built on a Cadillac platform to be more affordable than one built on Zeta.

Maybe a BMW 1-series is a pony car. Or a VW GTI....

 

We all have our agendas...........don't we.



I don't expect it to be less affordable.

 

Exactly. Your wear yours on your figurative sleeve.

 

As do you. Really. You are not going to pretend that you are somehow above the fray, are you?

Anyhoo, what's wrong with having an agenda. We are on an enthusiast discussion board, aren't we? Don't we all have some sort of an agenda of some kind? All of us? Even you? No?

I mean are you trying to vilify me....because of my sig?? Accusing me of actually reading it ...and then... understanding it..... and then...giving it some forethought.... before posting it?
Oh man, you've got me there.

Maybe I need to start wearing a cup before I come here....

 

.....and that's undisputably where the 5G Camaro has lost it's way. It HAD been a better handling car than the Mustang - or anything else in it's class for a VERY long time.
It's guaranteed there's no way in hell the 6G Camaro regains that title without going on a pretty significant diet.