Slappy3243

Yeah, I agree that my GTO isn't as beefed up as a 5th gen, but it is still a 400 HP, RWD coupe with a fully independent suspension that gives a smooth ride which is great for daily driving but is also stiff enough to provide decent performance on the track. If GM could do it back in 2005, I am sure it can be done again in the future .

jg95z28

No I was actually saying "assuming" the 6th gen is smaller and lighter than the 5th gen...

guionM

Don't view what I said about a live axle Camaro as fact. In the process of development, as happened with the 5th gen, everything's on the table. If feedback dictates that the IRS on the 5th gen was an important selling point, the issue is settled. On the other hand, if no one cares one way or another, then I'd wager it wiould be looked at more.

I'll see your amusement, and raise you.

Take the LS2 GTO and the 5th gen LS3 Camaro SS. Both with manuals.

Not only is acceleration the same and top speed the same (both are governed to 155mph), but the GTO is rated at better fuel economy.

The GTO is also far more tossable.... and an ideal drift car.

For sure, if I was to have an unexpected encounter with a 3 ton, stoplight running, SUV coming at my door, or a drunk a-hole bearing down in my lane in the opposite direction on a 2 lane road, I'd choose the Camaro over the GTO. However, the GTO isn't exactly a flimsy Fox Mustang, and it is a bit stronger than the 4th gen.

It can take a pretty good hit. Seen a couple of examples of it.

Z284ever

I guess we can get a peek into where the 6th gen Camaro will go by going over some of the next gen Mustang rumors.

1) Next gen Mustang will lose weight. Depending on who you listen to, 250-400 less. Will be watching with interest.

2) Next gen Mustang will have slightly smaller exterior dimensions, while optimizing it's own D2C architecture for Mustang's specific purposes.

3) IRS as a plug and play option.

4) Turbo 4 as base engine, 250 or so HP.

5) Turbo V6 vs V8??? Whatever, a V8 (or two) will be available.

Jason E

What I'm keeping my eye on the most is weight, and visibility. The weight has to come down 200-300 lbs...I don't like feeling like I'm riding in a heavy bank vault going down the road.

While I haven't driven a 5th gen still, I've sat in plenty. While I love the style, SOMETHING needs to be done next time to help keep the racy look while aiding visibility. The Challenger, IMO, is far easier to see out of, and even that has horrible visibility to the sides and behind...

Z284ever

There are things which I hope to see in a 6th gen. I guess when you boil it all down I'd want a car that is a pure joy to drive. And I'm not just talking about monster horsepower either.

Did you ever drive a car that just felt right? They way it drives, the way it steers, the balance of the chassis, the feeling of situation awareness around you (ie., visibility), the way the steering wheel and shifter feel in your hands - and so much more. A car like that is a joy to drive and own, even if it only has 200 hp. That essence, that "thing" is what I'd like most to see return to the Camaro. THAT should be priority number one.

OutsiderIROC-Z

HuJass

Some of you may disagree with me, but I feel my Solstice GXP is one of those cars.

No, it doesn't have 500 hp and run 11s in the quarter.
But it has lots of power (probably enough to run a 13.90, which is pretty damn fast if you think about it).

It accelerates well, it stops well, it steers well, it handles well, it shifts well, it's comfortable, it rides nice, it has nice ergonomics, it has most of the creature comforts. It's even quiet for a convertible.

To me, the car is as Charlie says; a pure joy to drive.

Of all the cars I've ever owned, I really think this is my favorite.

Jason E

As a matter of fact, yes I have...I own two. And yes, they are both Camaros. I have driven my Z28 for the past 9 years and 30k miles...often driving it like I stole it. I know that car inside and out...how it will respond, how hard to push it, when it'll break loose. The steering is somewhat numb, but otherwise I feel completely connected to the car. The LT1 is music to my ears, the transient response is excellent, and I love it.

The other one is my IROC. It feels like it has all the steering feel the Z28 lacks. I have not pushed it as hard as my Z28 because a) it still has 22 year old tires on it (being replaced Monday) and b) because of this, I haven't learned where the outter limits are, having owned it for only 2 months. Indeed, it only has 230hp...but the torque is intoxicating, the seats are very comfortable, I feel 100% connected to the road, and the visibility is excellent (one thing I never liked about 4th gens was how the rear fenders filled up the side view mirrors).

This connection, this size, this purity of intent has captivated me since I first learned to drive in my '89 Camaro back in the mid 90s. Throughout 14 years of driving, I've always had the "performance first" attitude. Handling always mattered more to me than straight-line bravado. Third gens had the styling and handling, fourth gens had the brute strength.

The 5th gen has the styling and the engines for sure, but the size is discouraging, the sightlines are terrible and the interior make me want to cry. I know what you're saying Charlie...and its why I own 3 third gens and a 4th. I drive LOTS of different cars as demos because of my job...everything from an H2 to a Mini Cooper S in the past 5 years. I've never driven something more fun than the IROC or the Z28...

Plague

I think we are all hoping for that

Slappy3243

I think the 5th gen SS might have a slight edge in acceleration when compared to my GTO. I have only raced one though, and it was that awkward kind of race from a traffic light where we really didn't know if we were racing or not but we didn't want to let the other guy get ahead until we both just punched it . He had about 1 car length on me by the time we shut down. However, it was an extremely hot day and the LS2 get heat soaked very easily. I think it is a driver's race though under normal circumstances.

However, I did have a good race with an SRT-8 Challenger. I had him beat by about two car lengths by the time we shut down at about 90 mph. It is a nice looking car and has a certain presence about it. My GTO's lighter weight definitely gave me the advantage here.

Z284ever

There are cars which have a certain magic when you drive them. Most BMW's I've driven have that. My old SVT Contour had it. The Miata has it. If a car has that essence, it doesn't matter much to me if the interior plastic is the wrong grain, or it has 20 less horsepower, or it costs $1,000 more.

Hopefully, the next gen Camaro can deliver that functional relation between it's parts for a greater whole. That's what I'd like to see. The 200 hp base model should be just as satisfying (albeit different) as the 450+ hp halo model.

As the Camaro focus group meets this weekend for the 3rd time, I hope someone there, **ANYONE**, brings up that point. I have a feeling that a certain someone just might.

teal98

I would say that the BMW 3s I've driven fit that, as do my '98 and '02 Camaros. My G8 is pretty good too, but there is something missing that I cannot describe. Perhaps it's the size or refinement.

It may sound strange, but I like to have a feel for how fast I'm driving. With the G8, I often find myself going faster than I thought. In a way that's good, because it means the car is refined. But it increases the chance of getting a confiscatory California speeding ticket.

formula79

Some of the things posted here are nonsese.

First off..GM HAS to build a car people want. The current car is a hugs success thus far because of it's direct styling links to it's heritage. The design makes you smile.

The being said, DESPITE having 300HP, the same styling, and pretty much every option as the V8, the majority of buyers STILL pay a premium for a V8. Go on a Camaro5.com and look at your average V6 buyers..they fall in the following catagories.

a.) Kid/early 20's male who would have bought a V8, but could not afford one.
b.) Female
c.) A very stray middle age man who wants a Camaro and says 300 HP is enough.

The V6 owners get a pass for the most part for owning one because it does have 300HP. However replace that with a 200-250HP 4 cylinder..not so much. We can talk turbo all day long, but turbo 4 has not worked for Genesis. Twin turbo V6 would cost $800-1000 more than a V8 which is HUGE.

If you look at the whole aftermarket for the Camaro it is catered towards the V8. Though the V6 is potent...it is already high strung from the factory and kinda painful to mod and get real gains.

I guess I don't understand why everyone is so fast to toss a V8 out the window. First off, name me one RWD coupe that is sold here that sells even in the volume of how many Mustang or Camaro V8's are sold a year. I am pretty sure Hyundai would have a great report somewhere on how that works. The simple fact is, if you are gonna build a RWD coupe in the US right now..the most lucritive market would be to name it Camaro or Mustang and put a V8 in it.

Now people will swear all day long that is gonna change..but there is simply no fact in that or actutal basis or trend. I mean..again..where on the internet are people saying "Screw this LS3 or 5.0L I want a Twin Turbo V6!". While those would be reputable engines in any other car..they don't fly in a Mustang GT or Camaro SS. We can shoot shop all day long, but at the end of the day, it is about what the buyers want. Will 4's and 6's play a role?...very certainly, but it will be adding additional volume at the lowend. Maybe a nice $18-29K 4 cylinder Camaro will pull some college chicks outta Civics. But they will never be Camaro's bread and butter or what makes the brand valuable to people. Part of the Camaro "brand" is having a V8. I don't think many Camaro SS owners would have just settled for a V6 if a V8 was not available or too expensive...they just would have bought another car and posted all over the internet how GM screwed up the Camaro. You would have a GTO situation where the car would have bombed because a important part of it's DNA was hugly wrong.

That brings me to the last peice of the puzzle. When the current Camaro came out..we were told things like "Oh V8's will be limited production and really expensive". You see how that panned out. GM is not stupid..they will sell you a V8 all day long for a $10K premium (especially when the V8 costs them less than the V6). Then they will gladly put a fraction of the money into whoring off a few Aveo's to make CAFE work.

The volume V8 in the Mustang and Camaro is not going anywhere. Ford just came out with a new 5.0L that likely has about a 10 year life frame. GM is working on new V8's which will be more advanced than we can probaly even imagine right now. Remember..the new CAFE standards are harder on trucks which have not been highly regulated in the past. GM makes a lot of money on trucks, thus will spend a lot of money making their V8's get better gas milage. What happens when you take that ultra efficiant truck V8 and put it in a 1500-2000lb lighter car? I really think GM will be able to have a 400HP V8 in the next Camaro that easily gets and exceeds 30 mpg. I am not saying that every Camaro will have a V8..I am just saying for the brand to be successful in my opinion at least 40% of sales need to be V8 sales because that is where the street cred and profitablilty is for the brand.

guionM

In identical conditions (as much as can be done) stock Camaro SS is no quicker than a stock GTO.

I know that whenever someone wants to brag or promote one vehicle over the other, everyone has an opinion about car rag results. However, I can attest to the fact that as far as maintaining a constant condition, the bigger car mags do a very exceptional job of trying to achieve consistancy of conditions.

Government EPA fuel economy tests are the peak of consistentcy of conditions. While results of car mags are more telling (and truthful of how one vehicle stacks up against another than internet claims) as far as how vehicles measure against each other as far as performance, the government epa ratings are about as perfect as you can get as far as how mileage stacks up against other cars.

When you look at Car and Driver's results of the LS2 GTO (and other magazines that have tested both), the Camaro SS ranges from barely quicker to not one iota quicker than the GTO. According to the EPA, the GTO is better in fuel economy as well. GTO in general cost no more than the Camaro SS (remember how people howled at GTO's price?), and in fact was generally cheaper.

GTO also didn't have 20" wheels and 275 tires out back.... yet it handled brilliantly next to the understeering Camaro SS.

None of this is to say that the Camaro SS inferior to the GTO.

Camaro can take a far greater hit with you walking away unscathed. Camaro has better suspension geometry than the GTO (there are certain..rare.. moves you can do in a Camaro that don't come off as well in GTO's trailing arm IRS). Finally, there is no way you could do Camaro's skin and proportions on GTO's chassis.

BTW:

For those of you who keep saying the Camaro is big, again, it's a huge deception. Camaro isn't very big. In fact, it's barely bigger than the Mustang.

What makes Camaro feel so huge are the following.

1. An unusually high belt line. The Chrysler 300 also uses this trick as does the Challenger. The Chrysler 300 is actually much shorter than a Chevrolet Impala and the Challenger is far smaller than a Monte Carlo. Yet, because of the high belt line, and the "chopped" greenhouse, the car looks huge.

2. Camaro has frigging 20" wheels! Again, another trick employed by Chrysler that makes vehicles look bigger (and feel bigger) than they really are. Consider that smaller diameter rims tires respond far more quickly to inputs than the set of huge behemoths that the Camaros have. Keep in mind that these rolling pins called wheels are the same diameter as many trucks and large SUVs.

3. Finally, seating positions. You sit in a Camaro and the dash is at chin level. So are the window seals on the doors. Yet the top edges of the windows are no higer than they'd be in a conventional Camaro.

The end result oif all this is that you feel like your sitting in a huge tank, with all 4 corners that seem to be up at shoulder level...or higher...accelerating and steering through rims and tires that only a few years ago would be the same diameter that you would get on Z71 Silverado and Tahoe 4WDs and almost the width of the back tires on Dodge Vipers.