5th gen roll out
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Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,646
From: Portland, OR
5th gen roll out
I was thinkning about this last night in traffic (where I do some of my best thinking). GM has a recent tradition of rolling out the 'hot' products after the mainstream or pedestrian versions.
For example:
ION, then Redline
GP GTP then Monte SS
Malibu Maxx then Maxx SS
Impala tham Impala SS
This stems from the 'hot potato' thread. I'm seriously hoping we do not have to go through that with the 5th gen. I hope if the Z28 (no slash) is the factory racer we're hoping it will be, we don't have to wait a year or two for it. Nor should we have to wait a year for the convertables.
It's been 3 years since they've left and it will be 5 years by the time 2007 rolls around.
I'm hoping when (if) the 5th gens are released, it's the automotive equivalent of 'shock and aw'. 5 models right out of the gate (V6, V6 convert, SS, SS Convert, Z28). No staggered intros, but something to the effect 'Sorry for all the noise, but we've got some lost time to make up for'.
Part of it is hearing a new Mustang commercial where it's made pretty clear that the Camaro and Firebird aren't around anymore and that's left the Mustang as king of the streets.
When the 5th gens are uncovered I want to hear the shrinkage in the Ford camp.
And...if I was the product manager, I'd want the first car to be seen an artic white V8 coupe with hugger orange racing stripes.
We're back, and we're bad.
For example:
ION, then Redline
GP GTP then Monte SS
Malibu Maxx then Maxx SS
Impala tham Impala SS
This stems from the 'hot potato' thread. I'm seriously hoping we do not have to go through that with the 5th gen. I hope if the Z28 (no slash) is the factory racer we're hoping it will be, we don't have to wait a year or two for it. Nor should we have to wait a year for the convertables.
It's been 3 years since they've left and it will be 5 years by the time 2007 rolls around.
I'm hoping when (if) the 5th gens are released, it's the automotive equivalent of 'shock and aw'. 5 models right out of the gate (V6, V6 convert, SS, SS Convert, Z28). No staggered intros, but something to the effect 'Sorry for all the noise, but we've got some lost time to make up for'.
Part of it is hearing a new Mustang commercial where it's made pretty clear that the Camaro and Firebird aren't around anymore and that's left the Mustang as king of the streets.
When the 5th gens are uncovered I want to hear the shrinkage in the Ford camp.
And...if I was the product manager, I'd want the first car to be seen an artic white V8 coupe with hugger orange racing stripes.
We're back, and we're bad.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 61
From: Port Royal, SC
The marketing folks will tell you that you will do better if you add a new hotter model well into the production run as a means of keeping the level of interest up. This seems to be the standard approach these days which in some cases makes up for longer production runs w/o major changes (something GM needs to stop anyway) The additional plus is you get to capture the "I gotta have it first" folks TWICE.
The flip side; Bringing out the hot models first gets you alot more attention up front. You could make a strong augument that this approach would drive the sales of the lesser units up from the start. The downside is you need to start to change things (other than wheels) in about 4 years.
I'd vote for the second approach.
The flip side; Bringing out the hot models first gets you alot more attention up front. You could make a strong augument that this approach would drive the sales of the lesser units up from the start. The downside is you need to start to change things (other than wheels) in about 4 years.
I'd vote for the second approach.
Registered User
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,557
From: Dallas, Texas
I agree, I'm hungering for a new Camaro. I don't want to have to wait a few years for a V-8 engine.
The new GTO isn't a muscle car at all in my opinion, yes the engine is nice, but the car doesn't look like it belongs parked next to Camaros and Firebirds at the dealership. It looks like it needs to be next to BMW 3 series and 5 series cars. The rear end of the car comes up to about my chest, while my Camaros come to about my waist, anything that comes up that high, that isn't from the 60s, isn't a muscle/sports car in my opinion. If the Camaro looks even remotely similar to it, I'll never buy one, I'll just have to break my vows and buy from another manufacturer.
I think the new Camaro Z28 needs to follow the previous generation and be an affordable sports car priced in the twenty thousand dollar range, not the thirties. I definitely do not want it to have 400 horsepower or something ridiculous either, my insurance is already high enough.
The new Mustang GT was supposed to have 400 horsepower, but it was reduced to a more sensible 280 horsepower if I remember correctly, don't flame me if I'm off by 20 or so horsepower. I would appreciate the new Camaro Z28 if it had 300 hp, 320 to 350 pound feet of torque, and if it weighed under 3500 pounds.
Personally, I think Chevrolet should offer the next gen Camaro SS with Corvette comparable stats. Perhaps even the ZO6 engine available in the SS
.
The new GTO isn't a muscle car at all in my opinion, yes the engine is nice, but the car doesn't look like it belongs parked next to Camaros and Firebirds at the dealership. It looks like it needs to be next to BMW 3 series and 5 series cars. The rear end of the car comes up to about my chest, while my Camaros come to about my waist, anything that comes up that high, that isn't from the 60s, isn't a muscle/sports car in my opinion. If the Camaro looks even remotely similar to it, I'll never buy one, I'll just have to break my vows and buy from another manufacturer.
I think the new Camaro Z28 needs to follow the previous generation and be an affordable sports car priced in the twenty thousand dollar range, not the thirties. I definitely do not want it to have 400 horsepower or something ridiculous either, my insurance is already high enough.
The new Mustang GT was supposed to have 400 horsepower, but it was reduced to a more sensible 280 horsepower if I remember correctly, don't flame me if I'm off by 20 or so horsepower. I would appreciate the new Camaro Z28 if it had 300 hp, 320 to 350 pound feet of torque, and if it weighed under 3500 pounds.
Personally, I think Chevrolet should offer the next gen Camaro SS with Corvette comparable stats. Perhaps even the ZO6 engine available in the SS
.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,647
From: At car shows and cruise nights!
I'd rather see the real Z28 we've been asking for out in the first model year and I really don't like the idea of keeping it on hold just to keep interest up. Make it great from the begining and there will be plenty of interest all the years it's available. There will be people asking for more than what the SS or top trim SS will supposedly have. Make both models great in their own ways and there's almost no way to lose.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,306
From: Jersey Shore
I think that if the Z28 turns out to be the Camaros Z06, then we are gunna have to wait a year. If teh Z28 is just the performance model, while the SS is the luxury model, both sharing top billing, then we will see both released at the same time.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,381
from C&G
That is what they gathered from people.
I personally would rather have them all come out the first year. One year later at the max.
THE RUMORS ARE TRUE[/SIZE]
“The Camaro Is Real”
When General Motors announced that the 2002 Camaro would be the last Camaro built enthusiasts were left wondering and asking themselves “why?” Sales plummeted toward the end of the 4th generation’s run and the car was seen more as a niche vehicle, only running on one shift in a plant that supported some hundreds of thousands of cars per year.
The GM press release read that the Camaro was to take a “hiatus” with no mention of a release. This tricky wording was quickly picked up by GM fans and enthusiasts and speculation began running wild as to when the Pony car would return. We have the details. We know when it is set to return, and we will share the information that we have with you.
Fellow C&G member AH-HA started the speculation almost one year ago today. On April 19th, 2003 he informed us that the Camaro would be around in 2007 just in time for the “anniversary party.” He was right. The Camaro is infact going to be built once more.
Styling
C&G got a scoop on the Camaro’s design from C&G member EVOK. The new Camaro is set to feature a mixture of every generation of the Camaro, right down to the hood scoop that comes from the 4th generation SS. While stying and engineering are nearly complete Crispeys rendition (seen above) has been confirmed to be 85% what the new Camaro will look like. The Camaro team have not yet made a final decision on the front end of the new Camaro and ideas are still being accepted for what the front could look like. Crispey’s rendition features:
1) Roof of the 1968
2) Front fenders of the 1998 where the fender line sweeps into the mirror
3) Side of the 1999 Nomad.
4) Merge all three together to form the front end.
5) Trunk of the 1968
6) General theme of the vehicle should be the 1968.
7) Windshield raked like the 1998 but the vehicle is more upright and coupe like as in the 1968.
8) More like the Essence of the 68 with a thinner c-pillar.
9) The 99 Nomad like wheel
I must stress that the Camaro’s design could change from what Crispey has come up with, but this is generally the look the Camaro will have with a few tweaks here and there. As of right now, the car is more then just a drawing on a board and we’ve heard from quite a few sources that the car is in clay form.
Architecture/Release
Look for the 5th generation coupe Camaro to debut in 2008 based on the Zeta architecture. Although the car may still see a 2007 debut considering GM has their pension liability under control. The convertible variant is set to debut a few months to a year after the initial coupe debut. Although the car may still see a 2007 debut considering GM has their pension liability under control.
Trim Levels/Powertrain
Perhaps the biggest piece of news that we’ve obtained about the 2008 Chevrolet Camaro is the trim levels and powertrain that will power the icon. Look for a base V6 model an SS model and a highly powerful “***** to the walls Z/28 that will return the Z/28 back to its roots.” The Z/28 model is not expected for release until 1-2 years after the Camaro makes its return.
The base V6 is expected to be powered by the HV 3.9l V6 while the base SS engine is expected to be the Gen IV 5.3l V8. Our sources were tight lipped about power on the Z/28 model, but would only say that the SS will be “very fast, and the Z/28 even faster!” We’ve also been told that the Z/28 will be more of a “Z06, top of the line” type Camaro. AWD has also been mentioned as being part of the powertrain equation. Although no final word has been made on that.
Build Location
How does an American made Camaro sound? Well rumors we’ve heard from a few sources indicate that the Zeta Architecture’d Camaro may be built at GM’s plant in Hamtramck, Michigan. We have also heard that the Camaro may be built in Canada in GM’s Oshawa assembly plant located up north.
While we are on the discussion of Zeta relating to the Camaro it would only be fitting to share our news about its mate the Pontiac Firebird. As of right now there are no plans to include a Firebird platform mate on the Zeta architect. Instead the Pontiac GTO will be built on the Zeta platform and will stick around as Pontiac’s RWD performance coupe.
“The Camaro Is Real”
When General Motors announced that the 2002 Camaro would be the last Camaro built enthusiasts were left wondering and asking themselves “why?” Sales plummeted toward the end of the 4th generation’s run and the car was seen more as a niche vehicle, only running on one shift in a plant that supported some hundreds of thousands of cars per year.
The GM press release read that the Camaro was to take a “hiatus” with no mention of a release. This tricky wording was quickly picked up by GM fans and enthusiasts and speculation began running wild as to when the Pony car would return. We have the details. We know when it is set to return, and we will share the information that we have with you.
Fellow C&G member AH-HA started the speculation almost one year ago today. On April 19th, 2003 he informed us that the Camaro would be around in 2007 just in time for the “anniversary party.” He was right. The Camaro is infact going to be built once more.
Styling
C&G got a scoop on the Camaro’s design from C&G member EVOK. The new Camaro is set to feature a mixture of every generation of the Camaro, right down to the hood scoop that comes from the 4th generation SS. While stying and engineering are nearly complete Crispeys rendition (seen above) has been confirmed to be 85% what the new Camaro will look like. The Camaro team have not yet made a final decision on the front end of the new Camaro and ideas are still being accepted for what the front could look like. Crispey’s rendition features:
1) Roof of the 1968
2) Front fenders of the 1998 where the fender line sweeps into the mirror
3) Side of the 1999 Nomad.
4) Merge all three together to form the front end.
5) Trunk of the 1968
6) General theme of the vehicle should be the 1968.
7) Windshield raked like the 1998 but the vehicle is more upright and coupe like as in the 1968.
8) More like the Essence of the 68 with a thinner c-pillar.
9) The 99 Nomad like wheel
I must stress that the Camaro’s design could change from what Crispey has come up with, but this is generally the look the Camaro will have with a few tweaks here and there. As of right now, the car is more then just a drawing on a board and we’ve heard from quite a few sources that the car is in clay form.
Architecture/Release
Look for the 5th generation coupe Camaro to debut in 2008 based on the Zeta architecture. Although the car may still see a 2007 debut considering GM has their pension liability under control. The convertible variant is set to debut a few months to a year after the initial coupe debut. Although the car may still see a 2007 debut considering GM has their pension liability under control.
Trim Levels/Powertrain
Perhaps the biggest piece of news that we’ve obtained about the 2008 Chevrolet Camaro is the trim levels and powertrain that will power the icon. Look for a base V6 model an SS model and a highly powerful “***** to the walls Z/28 that will return the Z/28 back to its roots.” The Z/28 model is not expected for release until 1-2 years after the Camaro makes its return.
The base V6 is expected to be powered by the HV 3.9l V6 while the base SS engine is expected to be the Gen IV 5.3l V8. Our sources were tight lipped about power on the Z/28 model, but would only say that the SS will be “very fast, and the Z/28 even faster!” We’ve also been told that the Z/28 will be more of a “Z06, top of the line” type Camaro. AWD has also been mentioned as being part of the powertrain equation. Although no final word has been made on that.
Build Location
How does an American made Camaro sound? Well rumors we’ve heard from a few sources indicate that the Zeta Architecture’d Camaro may be built at GM’s plant in Hamtramck, Michigan. We have also heard that the Camaro may be built in Canada in GM’s Oshawa assembly plant located up north.
While we are on the discussion of Zeta relating to the Camaro it would only be fitting to share our news about its mate the Pontiac Firebird. As of right now there are no plans to include a Firebird platform mate on the Zeta architect. Instead the Pontiac GTO will be built on the Zeta platform and will stick around as Pontiac’s RWD performance coupe.
I personally would rather have them all come out the first year. One year later at the max.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
Look for a base V6 model an SS model and a highly powerful “***** to the walls Z/28 that will return the Z/28 back to its roots.” The Z/28 model is not expected for release until 1-2 years after the Camaro makes its return.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,646
From: Portland, OR
Originally posted by jg95z28
Yeah, but I'm willing to wait the extra time for a Z-28... just as long as we know in advance that it is actually coming.
Yeah, but I'm willing to wait the extra time for a Z-28... just as long as we know in advance that it is actually coming.
Not to sound shallow, conceited, or just plain stupid, but I think GM does owe us that to attone for past sins.
That still didn't come out right....
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
I don't want to have to wait for a High Powered Camaro like the Mustang folks will be doing in 2005. Put out all 3 trims from day one (V6, LS4, LS2) we have already waited too long.
Insurance isn't based on HP, also the new Mustang GT was never intended to have 400HP. The GT as always been entry level V8 and the '05 was planned to have 280-310hp from day 1 (it ended up with 300hp) 
Originally posted by Brangeta
I I definitely do not want it to have 400 horsepower or something ridiculous either, my insurance is already high enough.
The new Mustang GT was supposed to have 400 horsepower, but it was reduced to a more sensible 280 horsepower if I remember correctly, don't flame me if I'm off by 20 or so horsepower. I would appreciate the new Camaro Z28 if it had 300 hp, 320 to 350 pound feet of torque, and if it weighed under 3500 pounds.
I I definitely do not want it to have 400 horsepower or something ridiculous either, my insurance is already high enough.
The new Mustang GT was supposed to have 400 horsepower, but it was reduced to a more sensible 280 horsepower if I remember correctly, don't flame me if I'm off by 20 or so horsepower. I would appreciate the new Camaro Z28 if it had 300 hp, 320 to 350 pound feet of torque, and if it weighed under 3500 pounds.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Those of us who have been here a few years know that Z28 was pretty close to being a non-event on the next gen Camaro. Our GM rep pretty much made it clear back in the days when the Z28 vs SS threads started & he often chimed in on them.
The fact that there will be a Z28 next round in itself is a minor miracle, thanks to certain GM people dropping by and reading alot of what was written here. The 5th gen lineup was to be the SS and the base.... nothing else. Now word is that Z28 will indeed return, along with a convertible, the year after introduction. Z28 is a late addition, so it won't be out with the rest of the lineup. That's the way it is.
As for what the Camaro absolutlely has to be, that's pretty irrelevent. It's going to be a coupe. It's going to have a trunk. It's going to be more occupant friendly. And by every account, it's going to look (if I may quote one GM employee who has seen it) "Kick ***".
It ISN'T going to be a continuation of of the relatively poor selling 4th gen. It ISN'T going to be a Corvette look alike. It isn't going to forgo sales just to appeal to a very small group of buyers (that view has been discredited), and most of all, it ISN'T going to have the performance model priced cheaper than an Impala or Monte Carlo supercharged SS. Period.
If those were the things you're demanding on the next Camaro or you weren't going to buy one, there will be plenty of other people to take your place.
BTW: there's going to be a 5th gen blurb in August's Popular Hot Rodding Magazine, and then another Camaro related story in September's. They'll be on the stands in July and August respectively.
The fact that there will be a Z28 next round in itself is a minor miracle, thanks to certain GM people dropping by and reading alot of what was written here. The 5th gen lineup was to be the SS and the base.... nothing else. Now word is that Z28 will indeed return, along with a convertible, the year after introduction. Z28 is a late addition, so it won't be out with the rest of the lineup. That's the way it is.
As for what the Camaro absolutlely has to be, that's pretty irrelevent. It's going to be a coupe. It's going to have a trunk. It's going to be more occupant friendly. And by every account, it's going to look (if I may quote one GM employee who has seen it) "Kick ***".
It ISN'T going to be a continuation of of the relatively poor selling 4th gen. It ISN'T going to be a Corvette look alike. It isn't going to forgo sales just to appeal to a very small group of buyers (that view has been discredited), and most of all, it ISN'T going to have the performance model priced cheaper than an Impala or Monte Carlo supercharged SS. Period.
If those were the things you're demanding on the next Camaro or you weren't going to buy one, there will be plenty of other people to take your place.
BTW: there's going to be a 5th gen blurb in August's Popular Hot Rodding Magazine, and then another Camaro related story in September's. They'll be on the stands in July and August respectively.
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
Originally posted by guionM
and most of all, it ISN'T going to have the performance model priced cheaper than an Impala or Monte Carlo supercharged SS. Period.
and most of all, it ISN'T going to have the performance model priced cheaper than an Impala or Monte Carlo supercharged SS. Period.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,646
From: Portland, OR
I don't think this has been the 'it HAS to be this or else' thread, at least that's not what I intended it to be.
I'm hoping after such a long hiatus GM would forgo the usual staggered launch in favor of a tour de force in light of a 5-6 year absence.
Bo loud and be proud. Would I wait a year for the Z28? Grudgingly. Perhaps I'd get an SS the first year then trade it in?
I just think it'd be fantastic for 5 models out of the gate if for no other reason than to shock the heck out of the competition and the buying market.
...just to say, "We're back big time."
I'm hoping after such a long hiatus GM would forgo the usual staggered launch in favor of a tour de force in light of a 5-6 year absence.
Bo loud and be proud. Would I wait a year for the Z28? Grudgingly. Perhaps I'd get an SS the first year then trade it in?
I just think it'd be fantastic for 5 models out of the gate if for no other reason than to shock the heck out of the competition and the buying market.
...just to say, "We're back big time."
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Originally posted by Z28x
Impala SS starts at $28,095, but that is before the $3000 rebate. Since GM is notorious for having high MSRPs and then lowering the price back down to reality with rebates, does that mean the V8 Camaro will come in closer to $28K or $25K. GM is trying to get off the rebate game a little so I would hope that the V8 MSRPs for $25K with no discounts (Mustang territory).
Impala SS starts at $28,095, but that is before the $3000 rebate. Since GM is notorious for having high MSRPs and then lowering the price back down to reality with rebates, does that mean the V8 Camaro will come in closer to $28K or $25K. GM is trying to get off the rebate game a little so I would hope that the V8 MSRPs for $25K with no discounts (Mustang territory).
There's really no point on bringing incentives into the equasion since incentives are targeted to move cars. Camaro would likely have no problem moving so don't expect much. Chrysler has minimal incentives on the 300, and GM still has no incentives on the GTO or Z06.
. I'm so jealous of that color. 