Let's assume ole' Bobbo was only flexing his sense of humor with that "30 yr nap" comment and we actually get a new Camaro.

There has been alot of previous talk about Camaro being a "low volume" car, like around 30k-40K units per year versus a high volume car 100K-200K units like Camaro once was and Mustang continues to be.

The low volume scenario would have Camaro as a more exclusive higher priced niche model. The high volume scenario would include a variety of models....from entry level to higher priced.

Which one would be best?

 

I would think it has to be high volume to keep the prices down. Just restore the Camaro to the Mustang fighter it has always been. It's more fun that way. Plus, how many low-volume performance cars do you really need? Corvette, XLR, GTO, SSR (not really high performance but you know what I mean).

 

I agree about the Mustang fighter part. Camaro and Mustang's fate have always been linked.

It looks like Ford is about to pull off the best of both worlds with Mustang. It will be (and is) a high volume brand that still gives exclusivity with it's various models.

 

The world is full of $35,000 niche vehicles. Do we need another?

 

I think this assumption that niche vehicles have to cost a lot is on a collision course with design and manufacturing technology. Computer-aided engineering allowed Holden to design the Monaro on a shoestring. Flexible manufacturing cells allow plants to make many different vehicles at the same plant. Don't assume the next Camaro has to sell 100k+ annual units to be affordable.

 

I say no to low volume.

 

The more units you sell, the more comfortable your profit margin can be while still justifying the project. If they profit, say, $2000 per unit from selling 25,000 cars, that's $50 million. But if they sell 125,000 at a modest $800 per unit which is less than half, that's $100 million; twice the profit. Ideally if they can get the best of both worlds by executing high production AND high profits per unit, by all means, they should.

And who wants to be looking for low volume cars 20 years from now? Going through the classifieds with a microscope looking for a camaro. . This should be a car that you can find at will, like the 3rd gens still are.

It should definitely be a HIGH volume car.

 

I think I'm for high volume too. But you won't get there with non-differentiated cookie cutter models.

How about a truly desirable base model.....maybe even with an optional V8.

How about differentiating models like SS and Z/28 so they can both be desirable to their intended audiences.

High volume need not be equated with chintzy or boring.

And to GM.....don't be afraid to spend afew bucks in order to make it successful.

 

I akways thought the 5.3 liter would make a good base engine. Don't they have something like 285 hp in the Silverados/Sierras?

 

I don't think in today's or tomorrow's market the old formulas still apply. Think platform sharing and global component availability.

The absolute MOST important inssue about the 5th gen Camaro (once we get the essentials, V8, RWD, 2+2, 2 door, etc...) is the COST. I shudder to think that affordable American performance is dead.....$35k base priced Camaros are NOT affordable for the traditional Camaro buyer!

 

High volume and affordable, with distinguishable models and great all around performance for the Z28.

 

Just my opinion, but a high volume 5th Gen doesn't seem like the best idea for The Return. I figure a borrowed rear wheel drive platform (one IS on the way, right?), with V6/V8 RWD powertrains options, and a matching good quality(sub Monaro?) useable interior (I miss having a true truck, oh yeah, I wonder how much those useless leather back seats I have cost?).

I would think with this line of thinking it would be possible to have a decent mix of drivetrain options offering a wider appeal beyond just performance enthusiasts such as ourselves - making for a nice, affordable two door coupe; appealling to a potentially larger general customer base for GM, and a solid driver's platform for us too.

The best part could be that as demand increases, just build more to accommodate, without having a dispropotionate number of F-bodies languishing in dealer lots for months on end - like they were the last couple of years.

 

I say high-volume, as well, but how about a realistic business case to go with it... I don't know that 250,000+ units per year is realistic...

 

I don't think 250K+ units is vey realistic either. But maybe 100-150K is.

Who knows, Mustang may surpass 250K by the time a new Camaro comes out. But they won't do it with ONE red headed stepchild base V6 model and ONE V8 model.

Mustang will address all sorts of niches...from sub $20k V6 coupes (215 hp initially and a rumored 250 hp, the following year), to near $40K, 400+hp coupes and convertibles.

Camaro will need true model proliferation to ever hope to see really high volume. And every last one of those models needs to be spectacular in it's own way!

 

If Camaro goes low volume, it would have forefited the market to Mustang!

Look at the new Mustang concept. Does anyone honestly think that will be a low volume niche vehicle?.

It will be tough enough for GM to have any Camaro buyers left if those hit the streets without any hint or announcement about a new one. Imagine the disaster if as soon as the '04 1/2 Mustang introduction is followed by a Chevy announcement about a limited production Camaro. If that's the only way for it to come back, then keep it dead. Camaro shouldn't be run by a bunch of quitters.

Corvette sells just under 30,000 cars per year. So does Thunderbird. Are you telling me that Camaro's sales annually can't top that, while the other guys are selling 200,000 Mustangs per year? Camaro should at least be able to match Monte Carlo's 60-75,000 per year sales, as it seems to traditionally do when the design isn't run into the ground and it's advertised as needed!

Camaro is MORE than just a V8 powered SS successor. There are alot of people who want a good stylish car that can hold it's own and has good aftermarket support. Anyone proposing a V8 only, or a niche only Camaro needs to get here to California or Arizona and see how many young males are hopping up V6 Mustangs. Should also talk to non-Z28 Camaro owners from the past, as well as those who bought non-SS Camaros the last 5 or 6 years.

If it means killing off the Cavalier coupe to avoid overlap, then it should be done. Saturn has a coupe off the same chassis. What's the point? That's a position the base Camaro should be filling!

Excuse the rant, I just feel very strongly about taking a car with probally the most historic name in GM, and reduce it down to nothing more than a fragment of what it once was.

Camaro is a whole line, not a single model. My view is if they don't understand that, then leave it dead..... Ford seems capable of permanently stepping in, so simply let them run the market.