1st gen to 4th gen no similarities why cant 5th gen be a new design?direction?
01-06-2003, 10:26 PM
#1
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1st gen to 4th gen no similarities why cant 5th gen be a new design?direction?
just to get my point across..the first gen is it..okay now go to second gen in 1970..there are no similarities to the car whatsoever...it went from american pony car to euro theme as they said back then...sleek and smooth..then in the 3rd gen came around..is there anything that looks 1st or 2nd gen in the 3rd gen on the Camaro?? small if anything..maybee isde profile??? thats about it..now the 4th gen is just a stretch on the 3rd gen as far as sleeking out the lines and then later on adding a new face..thats it..so speaking of what is a 1st gen to a 4th gen but in a name?? thats it..basically all clean sheet designs till 4th gen..so why cant the new 5th gen be a totally new car..
Im sure alot of people when they say the 2nd and 3rd gens said "thats no Camaro" now they are part of Camaro history..
just wondering if a new disign came across why cant it be badged as Camaro as long as it had what Camaro stood for.. and let it do its thing on the street??
kinda got me thinking after seeing the new GTO..nothing there that screams old GTO..but it is in soul a GTO through and through...
I mean what if they DID rebadged Monaro as a Camaro to and ship it here as the replacement?? would that be a Camaro??? for Chevy?? Just wondering..
Im sure alot of people when they say the 2nd and 3rd gens said "thats no Camaro" now they are part of Camaro history..
just wondering if a new disign came across why cant it be badged as Camaro as long as it had what Camaro stood for.. and let it do its thing on the street??
kinda got me thinking after seeing the new GTO..nothing there that screams old GTO..but it is in soul a GTO through and through...
I mean what if they DID rebadged Monaro as a Camaro to and ship it here as the replacement?? would that be a Camaro??? for Chevy?? Just wondering..
01-06-2003, 11:58 PM
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LOL
I think I understand what he is trying to say though. After seeing the new M*****g concepts he is hoping that doesn't happen to the Camaro and it will continue to use cues along with new designs, as it has pretty much always done as has the M*****g until the next car. And I agree. If you look at all Gen Camaros ext. and int., you can see other Gen's in them somewhere. (sometimes even 4th's, but not much) Its gotta keep going that way IMO, cues and new blended together, just not too much of either, unless done right.
I think I understand what he is trying to say though. After seeing the new M*****g concepts he is hoping that doesn't happen to the Camaro and it will continue to use cues along with new designs, as it has pretty much always done as has the M*****g until the next car. And I agree. If you look at all Gen Camaros ext. and int., you can see other Gen's in them somewhere. (sometimes even 4th's, but not much) Its gotta keep going that way IMO, cues and new blended together, just not too much of either, unless done right.
Last edited by IZ28; 01-07-2003 at 12:15 AM.
01-07-2003, 12:47 AM
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I still don't understand why he would say that there aren't any similarities between each generation?I just can't see how he came to his conclusion?Must not be much of a Camaro fan to not know the similarities between them.
01-07-2003, 07:33 AM
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Here's how I see the generation linking (looks wise) , if at all:
1st to 2nd: virtually nothing.
2nd to 3rd: The rear taillight theme was carried over from the late 2nd gens to the 3rd gen.
3rd to 4th: The front theme was carried over from the 3rd gen to the early 4th gen.
I agree that an F5 Camaro needs to be regognizable as a Camaro, bnut it does NOT need to be retro in order to do so... it can be modern and evolutionary instead.
1st to 2nd: virtually nothing.
2nd to 3rd: The rear taillight theme was carried over from the late 2nd gens to the 3rd gen.
3rd to 4th: The front theme was carried over from the 3rd gen to the early 4th gen.
I agree that an F5 Camaro needs to be regognizable as a Camaro, bnut it does NOT need to be retro in order to do so... it can be modern and evolutionary instead.
01-07-2003, 07:36 AM
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okay realistically hat stylin cues held the 1st gen to the second gen..in my opinion TOTALLY diffrent body styles..a diffrent car per say..just a name change..to a new car..67-69 was a pony car ..the 70's brought the "euro sleek" look to it as it did the the firebird..but the Camaro's whole body art is diffrenteven the roofline went from coupe to a fastback style...
then the 3rd gen. where is that part of 1st or second..it had 4 lights in a resessed area and very diffrent tail lights..very little carry over to say HEY THATS a CAMARO...maybee just the spoiler on the back?? but it went from coupe to hatchback in 3rd gen..
now from 3rd to 4th..it was just smoothing out the lines..thats it..it almost looks Vette like..I remeber when I got the car..alot of people thought it was the new vette and asked me what year it is...and I have plenty of pics of my camaro with the 1st gens and to me they are both CAMARO but totally diffent cars..
one more example yu take an 80's and you put it up to a 65 ..what makes it look like a mustang nothing really but it is mustang..put a 94 to it..and its got alot of similarities..not retro but family history....
the 2005 concept is to retro and looks like the gone in 60 seconds 67 Stang..thats copy of tthe original...
that I dont want to happen to Camaro..the best way to do it is bringing you back to Hot Wheels Muscle Tone from a few years ago..I think this guy that designed the car and admitted its a 5th gen concept to him..he did it right..blended little elements to the car and made a new great looking body.. so if that was to be it then I would say YES thats a nice Camaro..
to add up..I am a huge camaro fan to say Im not is an insult..I just say look at a 1st gen and a 4th gen..what similar parts do you see that stand out??? very little..very little...but hey you can dissagree {flame suit on!}
then the 3rd gen. where is that part of 1st or second..it had 4 lights in a resessed area and very diffrent tail lights..very little carry over to say HEY THATS a CAMARO...maybee just the spoiler on the back?? but it went from coupe to hatchback in 3rd gen..
now from 3rd to 4th..it was just smoothing out the lines..thats it..it almost looks Vette like..I remeber when I got the car..alot of people thought it was the new vette and asked me what year it is...and I have plenty of pics of my camaro with the 1st gens and to me they are both CAMARO but totally diffent cars..
one more example yu take an 80's and you put it up to a 65 ..what makes it look like a mustang nothing really but it is mustang..put a 94 to it..and its got alot of similarities..not retro but family history....
the 2005 concept is to retro and looks like the gone in 60 seconds 67 Stang..thats copy of tthe original...
that I dont want to happen to Camaro..the best way to do it is bringing you back to Hot Wheels Muscle Tone from a few years ago..I think this guy that designed the car and admitted its a 5th gen concept to him..he did it right..blended little elements to the car and made a new great looking body.. so if that was to be it then I would say YES thats a nice Camaro..
to add up..I am a huge camaro fan to say Im not is an insult..I just say look at a 1st gen and a 4th gen..what similar parts do you see that stand out??? very little..very little...but hey you can dissagree
{flame suit on!}
01-07-2003, 10:55 AM
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Did you actually look at pics of the cars to come up with that sumation or did you just ramble it off the top of your head?Every gen had the same or similar things used throughout the years,going back and forth for design ques.Go look at pics of all the gens and you'll know.
1st to 2nd
The basic designs/aspects theme on 1stgens carried over to the early 2nds-same type rear window treatment(a little larger),long hood,same 1 piece decklid spoiler(a little longer now),still has the rear side marker light in same location,some similarities on the front end grill and bumpers.interior:has bucket seats,has a similar center console between the front seats,same type of rear seat design.
2nd to 3rd(and 1stgens): The rear taillight theme was carried over from the late 2nd gens to the 3rd gen.AddingIt has a long hood(with 2 hood ornaments which highend 1stgens had-plain hood for lowerend models)has same type rear spoiler(smaller).The rear window is basically the same design(only larger),has a lower front grill as did the later 2nds,has similar gauge pod design/shape along with the rest of the dash as did the early/late 2nds had( combo of both-early 2nds had small gauge pod-later 2nds had, and the same overall passenger compartment design:has bucket seats,has a similar center console between the front seats,same rear seats design.
3rd to 4th(and earlier gens: The front theme was carried over from the 3rd gen to the early 4th gen.AddingSame overall passenger compartment design,has similar decklid spoilers,similar hatch design,similar rear bumper(smoothed out,rounded off),OTHER GENS:has similar cowl induction on the SS as did the '78-79 Z28s,has 2 skinny tailights as did the 1stgens.
1st to 2nd
The basic designs/aspects theme on 1stgens carried over to the early 2nds-same type rear window treatment(a little larger),long hood,same 1 piece decklid spoiler(a little longer now),still has the rear side marker light in same location,some similarities on the front end grill and bumpers.interior:has bucket seats,has a similar center console between the front seats,same type of rear seat design.
2nd to 3rd(and 1stgens): The rear taillight theme was carried over from the late 2nd gens to the 3rd gen.AddingIt has a long hood(with 2 hood ornaments which highend 1stgens had-plain hood for lowerend models)has same type rear spoiler(smaller).The rear window is basically the same design(only larger),has a lower front grill as did the later 2nds,has similar gauge pod design/shape along with the rest of the dash as did the early/late 2nds had( combo of both-early 2nds had small gauge pod-later 2nds had, and the same overall passenger compartment design:has bucket seats,has a similar center console between the front seats,same rear seats design.
3rd to 4th(and earlier gens: The front theme was carried over from the 3rd gen to the early 4th gen.AddingSame overall passenger compartment design,has similar decklid spoilers,similar hatch design,similar rear bumper(smoothed out,rounded off),OTHER GENS:has similar cowl induction on the SS as did the '78-79 Z28s,has 2 skinny tailights as did the 1stgens.
Last edited by 91Zman; 01-07-2003 at 10:58 AM.
01-07-2003, 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by 91Zman
Did you actually look at pics of the cars to come up with that sumation or did you just ramble it off the top of your head?Every gen had the same or similar things used throughout the years,going back and forth for design ques.Go look at pics of all the gens and you'll know.
Did you actually look at pics of the cars to come up with that sumation or did you just ramble it off the top of your head?Every gen had the same or similar things used throughout the years,going back and forth for design ques.Go look at pics of all the gens and you'll know.
The "long hood" type stuff is a given.... you have to fit a V8 in there, and a long hood is certainly not a Camaro exculsive.
The 3rd to 4th gen setup stuff is also a given as the 4th gen was literally based on the 3rd gen.
01-07-2003, 11:17 AM
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Just in case I didn't make myself clear earlier...
GM please don't rebadge the Monaro and call it "CAMARO"!
While cool... that sedan weighs over 3600 lbs and is a slower than a 4th gen F-body.
Please come up with something original, light (sub-3300 lbs) and RWD.
GM please don't rebadge the Monaro and call it "CAMARO"!
While cool... that sedan weighs over 3600 lbs and is a slower than a 4th gen F-body.
Please come up with something original, light (sub-3300 lbs) and RWD.
01-07-2003, 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by Darth Xed
I don't know if this was directed at me or not, but I was talking about obvious visual cues that were carried from one gen to the next, and were unique to Camaro.
The "long hood" type stuff is a given.... you have to fit a V8 in there, and a long hood is certainly not a Camaro exculsive.[i]No crap it's not camaro exclusive...geeze.... but they did have them.Each gen had them except the 4ths.
The 3rd to 4th gen setup stuff is also a given as the 4th gen was literally based on the 3rd gen.
I don't know if this was directed at me or not, but I was talking about obvious visual cues that were carried from one gen to the next, and were unique to Camaro.
The "long hood" type stuff is a given.... you have to fit a V8 in there, and a long hood is certainly not a Camaro exculsive.[i]No crap it's not camaro exclusive...geeze.... but they did have them.Each gen had them except the 4ths.
The 3rd to 4th gen setup stuff is also a given as the 4th gen was literally based on the 3rd gen.
01-07-2003, 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by 91Zman
No it wasn't directed towards you,though the stuff that I stated was obvious if you actually study each gens designs.Let me say this again,they all have similar styling ques from each gen in their overall designs,thats a given.Why say what you visually see a given?That doesn't make any sense!You saying givens are things that you don't see?......Givens.THEY ARE STYLING QUES!!!
No it wasn't directed towards you,though the stuff that I stated was obvious if you actually study each gens designs.Let me say this again,they all have similar styling ques from each gen in their overall designs,thats a given.Why say what you visually see a given?That doesn't make any sense!You saying givens are things that you don't see?......Givens.THEY ARE STYLING QUES!!!
It has to be there to accept the engine...
I'm not saying you are wrong, obviously all 4 gens of Camaro had long hoods (4th gens were a bit shorter because the engine was crammed under the windshield) but, generally, it is there...
If you line a 2002 Camaro up next to a 1967 Camaro though, there is virtually no connection, styling wise....
And I don't think there really needs to be either.... like I said, I am in favor of the evolutionary visual design of cars, where the new generation takes cues from the previous generation and becomes it's own car...
Maybe I should define what I consider obvious design cues:
- Corvette's 4 circular(ish) taillights.
- Corvette's concealed headlamps (which is a huge mistake if they do go away with the C6)
- Camaro's taillight treatment that carried over from 81 to 82.
- Monte Carlo's traditionally upright taillamps configuration.
A design cue can carry from one time period to the next, and fade away (2nd to 3rd gen taillights) , or it can stay a long time (Corvette circular taillights) ....
This is all very subjective though... so anyone can argue this anyway the want and not really be wrong.
Last edited by Darth Xed; 01-07-2003 at 12:18 PM.
