LT1runner

It's a cobra. we're not in the same boat as the ford boys were in. GT are still slow in comparison. It's just the aurguement has changed.
Before the ford boys would say all I need to do is this and I'll be faster than a Z28. Well ok.

Don't get me wrong. The 03Cobra is a nice fast car. It's good that ford stepped up. But the only car that can race in the same class as a Z28 is the GT. Lossing again. Sure when some GM boys throw on a blower to race in the same class, It's great stuff, win or lose.

It's not a bad thing if your NA car gets beat by a blown car. It has more stuff(ie Blower) It's a sweet set up(03 cobra). I think inside ford they may have thought about beating the LS1. Maybe even tried hard. But in the end, the path that they went down in 96 with the 4.6 limited them to a blower in 03. If not then they would still get smashed NA. To get a NA cobra from the factory to beat a LS1 would be more expense then throwing on a blower they can buy in bulk.

It's like a V8(you) beating me(V6)(both NA no power adder) and you saying HA! My car is faster then yours. I'd say well duhhh, it should be. Could more stuff(2 more cydrs) have something to do with it.

I will admit that the 03 cobra is the biggest bang for the buck nowadays. Only if you can buy it for $35,000. A couple grand more than that, you could easily drop either a single or a twin turbo setup for a LS1 and kill 03 cobras all day.

In addition, all GM has to do is make the 5th gen boost friendly, Leave it NA, and add the power. Then that'll leave guys the option to turbo that puppy. Hell GM could have an aftermarket turbo kit ready in 6 months. Hhhmmm.


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Chris-95Z28M6-Vortech 355 @15PSI
Member of MTFBA (Middle Tennessee F-Body Association)

90 TSi (AWD) Stuff@20PSI
92 Laser RS(AWD) Taking back to stock (selling soon)

BOOST, ADD FUEL!

muckz

Let's not turn this into another flame war.

Now, to some points. You have some good points, but also you have to realize that the car (Cobra) is quick stock. Blower, no blower, it doesn't matter really. This has been beaten to death here and on Mustang boards.

Why did they decide to strap a blower on? To beat LS1? I doubt it. Cobra is a good, solid mid 12 second car stock. The good part about the car is that with simple pulley, exhaust and intake change, this is an 11 second car. LS1 is a far cry from that. So I doubt they built Cobra to compete with LS1. They built Cobra because Ford purists demanded a very fast Mustang, the one that could not easily be beaten by most other cars. And you know, how many stock cars run low 12's that could beat Cobra? Or 11's to beat lightly modified Cobra? You can count them on one hand.

And now for those who claim that they can't squeeze much HP from 4.6L motor (and hence they resorted to blower)... Mach I will have 320 HP squeezed out of this engine. That's not bad, not bad at all if you take into account that it's 1.1 L less than LS1, but the difference in HP is only 20 - 30.

You have a good and valid point in that Cobra is not in the same class as Z28. Mach I may be like SS, but if we compare cars to Z28 then we have to take GT. And yes, they're still slower. I doubt we'll see GT's run low 13's stock anytime soon. Maybe in 2005 when they release new Mustang.

Quote:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">posted July 17, 2002 08:57 AM
It's like a V8(you) beating me(V6)(both NA no power adder) and you saying HA! My car is faster then yours. I'd say well duhhh, it should be. Could more stuff(2 more cydrs) have something to do with it.</font>

You won't hear BMW M-series owners complain that AMG Mercedes is fast because of the blower. Maybe it's not such a good example, since AMG is still slower than M, but a point nonetheless.

Quote:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I will admit that the 03 cobra is the biggest bang for the buck nowadays. Only if you can buy it for $35,000.</font>

Yes, you can buy it plenty for just $35,000. Even if you add another 2 or 3 K on top of that, it's still one of the best performers for the buck.

Quote:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">A couple grand more than that, you could easily drop either a single or a twin turbo setup for a LS1 and kill 03 cobras all day.</font>

But you see, less than $1000 into the Cobra and you've got yourself Z06 killer. And it still costs more than 10 or 15K less. How's that? Remember, leave modding out of this. Modding Cobra wins BY FAR over modding any LS1.

[qutoe]In addition, all GM has to do is make the 5th gen boost friendly, Leave it NA, and add the power. Then that'll leave guys the option to turbo that puppy. [/quote]
This would be a great thing to do. Make compression at 9.5:1 or less.

LT1runner

I understand what your saying. The point about throwing on the turbo set up is the total cash spent. New Z28+turbo setup vs. new 03 cobra. I'm sure you'll spend less cash and have a better set-up than the cobra. Even a GT with a turbo set-up can be a better option if you're a numbers guy. Of course I do hear what you're saying about lightly modded.

The Benz point is not really valid to me. They made a pig and they know it. They just want to keep motors together. For that I can't blame them.

Don't get me wrong, Hats off for the 03 cobra. I can't aurgue with numbers. It works. It still comes down to blower, wonder car. No blower same old stuff. Don't believe me. Check the 02's out.

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Chris-95Z28M6-Vortech 355 @15PSI
Member of MTFBA (Middle Tennessee F-Body Association)

90 TSi (AWD) Stuff@20PSI
92 Laser RS(AWD) Taking back to stock (selling soon)

BOOST, ADD FUEL!

Burmite

Wow. After reading this thread I have a sense of deja vu. Like we have discussed this before...

Black Sunshine/ 00SS

Whenever I hear all the smack from the Ford guys about this new 03 Cobra, I say, imagine what a stock LS1 would do with a blower on it.. And they shut up

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hchap63@hotmail.com

01/SS, Black A4, TR224/112, ARE stage 2 heads, lid, FTRA, PMAF, PTB, Grott LT, true duals, NGK, ASP pulley, Vig 3200, LCA, poly TAB, Convo pros, ET Streets, 3300 raceweight. Little bit of juice..

Best ET: (All bolt ons) 11.496@116.42 (1.52)

Current best after Head & cam & nitrous:
10.88@124 (1.60)

Motown Muscle King of The Hill winner 6-8-02. Want some? Get some!!

RIP #3 Dirty Dale!!!

guionM

You too?

Doug Harden

Ain't it funny how this tired old arguement won't go away?

Hats off to Ford for (finally) stepping up to bat........thumbs down to GM for dropping the ball.....

Besides aren't you arguing stock vs stock?? Who the heck leaves their car stock??? And don't forget, we ain't got no 'stock' new Camaros......

IndyZ28

I wonder if my car is lightly modded? I have most of the bolt on's, except a pulley. Before the headers I went 12.09 @ 114. Never been inside the engine. After the headers on stock RSA's I have ran 12.44 @ 116. Maybe I am the exception and not the norm though, I really don't know. Plus I have lost to slower cars more that once. Lack of traction, not enough road to safely run a quarter mile at 115 on ciry roads. Just because x car puts more power to the wheels than y car doesn't always mean that x car will win. Will a stock Cobra give me a run for my money? More than likely. At this point it looks like it would come down to driver skill and who hooks better. I like the 03 Cobra, nice car and if I could afford to own an 03 Cobra and my current 01 Z than I would be in line tommorow. I am itching to suprise some Cobra owner that thinks he is going to blow me away. Do I think that I'm not going to lose? Sometimes. But I think that I may have the advantage with some. Cobra owners are gonna come thinking "easy victory" which could be there downfall when they pull up next to me. Doesn't matter to me. I will be ready.

P.S. Power adder not to far off for those that might bring a little more to the table.

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James
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2001 Z28 Hard Top Coupe Stripper,
NBM, M6, Power Steering Cooler
MI plate: 01 Z
Best 1/4: 12.097 @ 113.96
Mods

Burmite

Yup. I just have a strange feeling this has been talked about before... Not sure about that though
I think I'll go lurk some more and check up on this board later, hopefully the 3rd gen versus 4th gen wars, the 03 Cobra versus 02 SS wars, and the idea for a retro GTO will have blown over by then and we can discuss something new.

LT1runner

No one is making you sit at the table and eat lima beans anymore. If you don't want to eat them, then don't. That solves the problems of eating lime beans, but what about over discussed topics like the 03 cobra? Hhhmmm? I know. Lets aply what we've learned with the lima beans.

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Chris-95Z28M6-Vortech 355 @15PSI
Member of MTFBA (Middle Tennessee F-Body Association)

90 TSi (AWD) Stuff@20PSI
92 Laser RS(AWD) Taking back to stock (selling soon)

BOOST, ADD FUEL!

muckz

You've got a freak car! I can't believe that you went that ET and trap speed with the few mods you have! Two thumbs up.

If you car traps 114, you're not far away from Cobra. I think stock Cobras trap less, slighly modded trap a bit more. You may surprise a number of them indeed.

95Bird

I have a 99 Formula ws6 with headers, borla, lid and vig 3200 converter. 12.08 at 111. Just installed a pulley on it so hope to sqeek into the 11s when the good air returns. I got all the mods from friends when they upgraded so I have aobut 1200 in mods. There are faster bolt on cars than mine in my town too. That is not a far cry from 11s with about the same bolt ons at the cobra will need and these fast bolt on cars are pretty common around here.

RiceEating5.0

Why does ford need a blower? good question, why does GM need 5.7L? Power is power, one company makes it one way, the other another way. In the end, it's stock for stock. And power wise, the blown cobra even ups the Ls-6 in this department.

Ken S

Well said!

Ford definantly sturred things up by slapping that SC on..

Now if GM would only start massproducing 7.0L C5-R blocks,heads, rotating assembly, etc... That would definatnly create some interesting results..

jrp4uc

Don't forget other favorites such as Z/28 vs. Z28 vs. SS and ponycar vs. musclecar.