Jabberwocky

Okay, I know I need a little toe out for autox. My question is, how stable is the car zero toe or toe out. I'm leaning towards zero toe right now. I'm especially concerned with how stable the car will be at high speeds (eg 100+). I rarely ever go that fast anymore but I'd like to know i can. My car is a daily driver, so I might have to compromise a bit on the alignment settings. The suspension is pretty much stock except for bilstein HDs and 35mm sway. Still using the stock control arm bushings.

Sam Strano

Zero toe drives fine on the street, but the car tends to fight itself a bit in long sweepers. Seems toe-in or out is fine, zero just ain't great.

I run 3/32" total toe-out in my car. 30k miles, original GS-C's for street tires. Car tracks fine, actually better than my '91 (which isn't stock) and even my '03 2500HD truck IMHO. It doesn't scare me a bit to run it up to 110. Doesn't wander badly or anything.

I'd recommed toe-out, even a little, just not zero.

bruecksteve

Sam, can you explain the "car fights itself" to me? I just wonder if it's what I feel in sweepers. Is it sort of like you have to keep providing steering input maybe back and forth) to keep it set in the turn?

JordonMusser

the only thing you will notice with a little toe out is that it will "tracK' more in ruts on the road, and it will be a little darty under hard braking (road course stuff).

I run just a hair of toe out.

bruecksteve

Well, with 315 Hoosiers it does that anyway!!!!!

Sam Strano

YMMW, but on the '99 ESP car, and my '01 FS car this is what I found. The car will turn in well enough initially, but then doesn't want to take a solid set. It must have to do with ackerman geometry or something, seeing how it seems okay on either side of zero.....

bruecksteve

Well, time for a re-alignment!!! I have zero right now. So you say maybe 3/32 total toe-in?

Sam Strano

I run about 3/32", but I run toe-out....... that amount toed-in would make the car pretty sluggish. Might be nicer to drive on the street on the Hoosier's, but I think not as nice to autox on, and shouldn't be an issue on street rubber.

bruecksteve

I meant toe out. I remember when I typed that I had typed "toes" and started laughing at the thought and drifted off when I finished typing!!!! It's an old guy thing...

Jabberwocky

I guess it's toe out for me too. I thought zero was a compromise between a darty toe out and a sluggish toe in. It seems more complex than that.

JordonMusser

its not that no toe is bad, but due to the nature of the play in the steering system, when you have no toe, you tend to get a little wobble in the system

WOT

I run an 1/8" total toe out. The car will track a little more but I've driven it on 6+ hour road trips and it doesn't bother me. It turns in very nice.

Jabberwocky

I finally got back from the alignment shop. If anyone has never got their car aligned, i'd recommend it. My car had 4 degrees of toe in.

Now i'm running .1 toe out, my tires are so cheap though the car doesn't track at all. Haha