I’m looking to increase my handling at higher speed cornering. Not autox type speeds, but more like road coarse speeds. To me, our cars seem set up for oversteer. When I take a corner pretty hard, even if I enter it soft and ramp up speed through the corner, the front outside corner seems to want to dive down and grab. This indicates to me that the car leans toward oversteer.

I asked this question before, but I asked how to reduce body roll, and the answer was a Suspension Technique’s 35mm front swaybar. Is that bar overkill for higher speed cornering. Will it be so much that the car wants to understeer? I’m not talking about super high speeds, but more like on/off ramp speeds, anywhere between 45 mph and 70 mph.

I do not autox, but want a neutral car with less body roll. Any help would be appreciated. I’m just wondering what suspenson setup, as far as sway bars go, would give neutral cornering.

The only suspension mods I have right now are new Bilstein shocks on stock springs, and I will have sub frame connectors on in a couple of weeks.

Thanks,
Dan

 

If I read what you're describing correctly, I'm reading understeer. Front outside corner diving down and grabbing is an indication that the weight transfer is on that tire. By default, all F-Bodies lean toward understeer. GM dictates that as being a more safe condition for most drivers.

Adding a larger rear bar (among other things) will shift that weight transfer toward the rear. Depending on the size of the rear bar, the more you shift from understeer, to neutral steer to oversteer.

If you only add the 35mm bar to the front, a couple of things could happen. One, you reduce body roll. This allows less camber change so the tire remains in better contact with the road. Not necessairly more understeer. Granted, at some point it will still understeer. I use a 21.5mm rear bar with my 35mm front. But determining the size of the rear bar is partially dependant on the stiffness of your rear springs too. They both work together to determine the amount of rear roll stifness.

 

Thanks Steve.

I understand what your saying, and I too would think that GM would set up the steering for understeer, being safer than oversteer.

So that is understeer that I am experiencing? I guess I haven't pushed it hard enough to find out. I don't want to end up in the ditch somewhere just to know what would happen with the car finally broke loose. If that is the case, why does everyone recommend a front swaybar upgrade before a rear bar upgrade? It pushes the car even more towards understeer. Does the stiffer front bar allow that much better tire contact that it still gives better cornering performance even though the car tends to want to puch even harder into corners?

I'm trying to get my thoughts around this. In the end, I want less body roll and a more neutral car.

Do you feel it would be better to upgrade both swaybars, instead of just the front? I'm assuming that doing just the front bar would make the car far less neutral, but would it increase the handling?

How about this?

BMR 32mm solid front
BMR 21mm solid rear

or
ST 35mm solid front
BMR 21mm solid rear

or
ST 35mm solid front alone

or
BMR 32mm solid front alone

or is there something else you recommend? I am on stock springs and Bilstein HD's(not revalved)

Thanks again for your advice.

Dan

 

If you're looking for a higher speed neutrl setting, I would think 35/19 or 35/21. I use a 21.5 solid LG Motorsports bar which is fine for me even at higher speeds.

Yes, better camber control is the benefit of the larger front bar. That's why using the large bar doesn't mean you'll get lots more understeer. Yes, it will still understeer but at higher cornering speeds. I would recommend the largest front bar you can get. Use the rear bar as a tuning device.

 

All well setup cars understeer, even race cars.

It's not just safety. A race car needs some understeer so that it can accelerate early off corners. It will have less understeer than a street car. One big reason is wet weather. The race car setup can be changed for more understeer when it rains, the street car needs a rain setup built in.

 

Hey, I'm in Saginaw also. You should ride in my car sometime it handles quite well with the 1LE Perfomance Package. Minimal body roll and I have the shocks adjusted in the middle.

 

Sounds cool. I've probably seen you around. What does your Z28 look like? Must be hardtop if it's a 1LE, but what color? Mine looks completely stock except for the exhaust tips I added in the back when I bought it in '97. Pics are in my sig.

I just ordered the Suspension Techniques 35mm front swaybar from Sam Strano yesterday. Should be here in a couple of weeks. I talked with him for quite a while. He said with the Bilstein shocks that I have, on stock springs, the bigger (35mm) front swaybar would be the best. If I had stiffer springs up front, I could pobably get away with the 32mm bar. It should be here in a couple of weeks. Maybe we can take the cars out then and see how they handle with the different setups.

I should also have my sub frame connectors (tubular BMR's) on by then.


Dan

 

I installed the BMR 35/25 solid sway bars on my car and it make a big difference in the way my car corners......My car stays almost perfectly flat and kickin the *** end out didnt get easier/harder but it changed. I sorta had to relearn how to corner after i installed the bars. I reccomend it.

 

35/25? Holy cow!!! I didn't know they made those large bars. Are you sure of the sizes? I thought their bars were 32 mm and 21mm.


Dan

 

Whoops i meant Suspension Techniques. I guess i should fix my sig too..

http://www.lmperformance.com/830/1.html

 

So what changes did you notice the most? Was it just in the corners, or did you notice it at lower speeds as well.

Dan

 

Well there are a few things that changed after i installed the swaybars.

1. The sterring got tighter but i think that was just because of thw weight difference between stock and the 35mm solid front sway bar.

2. The new swaybars both front and rear had poly bushings and endlinks on them which made the car just feel more responsive at all speeds.

3. At lower speeds it is easily noticeable, to me at least, that the car handles differently. I do mostly city driving and i can tell a difference anywhere from 20 mph to 120 mph.

When i am at lower speeds i can really crank it around corners and have no lean or roll and the car just goes where i point it. Overall i am really happy with these bars and they were only 200 bucks and they came with poly busyings and endlinks. It took me and a buddy about an hour to do both bars with only a set of ramps to put the car on. The new bars are heavy compared to the stock bars so if your your worried about weight you might wanna look at some others. The front bar i would say weighs around 30 pounds and the rear is about 10. hope this helps

 

That website has good prices on the ST bars.

Thanks for the reply. That sounds like it's exactly what I'm looking for. I guess I'll have to see how I like the front one, and buy the rear if I think I need it. (whether it's a 21 or 25mm bar)

What shocks and springs are you running?

Dan

 

My suspension is all stock except for the sway bars.......i think. I bought my car used so i dont know the RPO codes for the suspension package...

 

That was my FIRST and best mod to make!!! I'm glad someone else can see it!