In a road racing car, like the F-Body, is it better to have more torque to move(ie 300hp 450tq), or more horsepower for speed(400hp 350tq) or both relatively equal(400hp 400tq)....

Just a thought that crossed my mind....Thanks for the input

93Z Will

 

hp is a function of tq and rpm.

(in units of HP, lb-ft, and rpms)

hp = tq * rpm / 5250.

Thats why the hp and tq numbers always equal each other at 5250 rpms.

the generalized answer, in any application, you want the meat of your tq in the rpm range you'll be spending most of your time in. Or to state it in another way, you want a the most hp in the rpm range your expected to operate in.

So I guess for the most of us, a good flat midrange tq curve would be best, to accel out of a turn, run down a straight, and pull out of a slow turn without having to downshift.

Now I guess if you had alot of $$ for a dedicated track car, you could build something that has a peakiertq curve was maximised towards the top, like 4500-7500 rpms to yield big hp numbers and adjust your gearing and shifting to stay in that range.


Same for drag racing.. you may want a good low end range of tq to launch, if you were laucnhing at say 2000 rpms.. But if you have your car setup to launch at 5000 rpms and shift at 7800 rpms, you'd obviously would want to shift your attention to that rpm range..

 

There are +/- to both, some people prefer torque to power out of the corners, however it can be a bad thing too. I have a video of a 240Z chasing a C3 with a big block, and he can't hardly get out of the corners without tearing the tires loose, so in his case he has "too much," making driving the car a little more touchy.

 

Thank you Ken S and Dr Mudge for answering... I know alot of variables have to be considered for HP/TQ....

Take NASCAR, do they set the engine up to run top HP at 8500-9000 rpms, then set up the car to the track that they run at... or do they build the engine for each track, adjusting the output of HP/TQ... IE speedways/short track.. I would believe they make more HP at the speedway, but want more torque at the short track....

IS there a general consensus for the F-Body on HP and TQ for the road race??? Which would be more beneficial to have more of, or more equal to???

Unless you have a budget to have engines build for different tracks.....

 

I'd say start with better wheels/tires, CMC cars with "stock" engines (LT1 guys have to kill power) still run lap times that "put to shame" lap times that higher HP non-racers pull. Add a bunch of horsepower to a good base car, and if the driver can actually drive it (it makes it more difficult IMO) then you may shave 1-5 seconds off a lap time over a 2 minute time period.

High HP cars will be fast in the straights but they could very well be slow in the corners, depending on driver and the rest of the car setup. If you want to really improve your driving skill I fully believe in having a slow car, because it forces you to the nth degree to drive effectively, keeping your speed up at a all times, excessive braking or poor entry/exit will hurt your times so much that you would learn faster IMO. Adding roughly 200 HP to an fbod made the car ridiculous and a bit difficult to drive in comparison, very touchy throttle, I went sideways over 100 MPH because of letting off the gas too quickly, and I was going in nearly a straight line.

It also requires you to think so much more quickly, that I think horsepower steps should be peice by peice, in an NA car without swapping cams that is not always easy, but you will find yourself not able to drive an 11 second car at full throttle if you are used to a 13 second car on a track. As an example I met a local BSP autoX champion, road racer, and even held a salt flats record for awhile for a 400+ MPH run, he has alot of racing experience and fully agrees that horsepower can kill driving skill quickly. He ran someone elses 900 pound, 300 HP car (like an old Formula1 style car) and said it was nearly impossible to drive.

Horsepower is fun, and addictive, but until the skill sets or "requirement" puts you there you'd be a better driver to leave it behind. I like having the power too to help make up for my driver deficiencies, being able to throttle steer a bit, power out of corners and remove a little front end push (if your carefull), but a significant HP jump just feels crippling unless your really ready for it as well as the rest of the car being setup to stick and handle the power.

If you watch spec racing on Speed, there is not much difference between the tiny little cars with no power, and at the end of the day the higher HP beastly cars that are heavy, like a Trans Am car. If you see someone getting lapped it is almost never because of horsepower, it will be because they or the car, or both are just not doing so hot.

If you watch historical series racing, like 240Z stuff etc, the little cars almost always whup the most ***. The Caterham/Lotus style cars seem to do the most damage, especially making up ground where the larger cars might have a screw up or two. I know a very fast 240Z that can pass a whole row of cars coming from the back of the pack, minus the Caterham. Close race between 510/240Z and Caterham and the Caterham won even after spinning out and going off track for a few seconds, after 3 laps he made up ground and won. So with the right driver, even the little "slow" car can rule the day. There are likewise tracks that the F3000 cars reportedly are faster than F1 cars, in certain corners on tracks the Toyota Atlantic cars are faster than the Indy cars.

 

I hope this wont be my experience,since I got used to the BASE v6 camaro,and now will be using about 100 more hp/100 more tq. in the new Z28 I like to think (see below)

That I can drive Z28 the same as I would the v6 with more power outa turns and on the straights. Still using momentum as the main means of gettin around the track and not the added power.But the extra power will be fun.But fully intend on driving the same as I have in the past.Which as you've mentioned took creativity in driving smoothness,momentum,not over breakin over drivin and good memory.And in my low hp car learned to keep up by this,and will drive it with higher hp cars w/ confidence. Just hope this transcends to the new cars higher hp/tq.Cant think why it wouldnt.

Yes it is....and Naw I want to keep it and try.


One of my drive along intructors used to hate it when I did this,but hey it works in certain cases t2 thill comes to mind. Man Doc seems you got alot of info rattlin around up there thanks for the share
n2ceptor,I cant say either way what I think is better,but I can recognize that what I read has been the case.I took a low hp/tq car to the track and had to learn to keep up by driving the car not its power.And have had good experiences lappin some cars I/you'd never imagine happening nor they're drivers But my main reason for upgradeing to a Z28 was for more power just hope I've learned enough to be competitive still with it. So I can say I like hp&tq but I really like to DRIVE.
Tony

 

I'm not talking a stock car, a 13 or 14 second car is one thing, going to an 11 second is another.

Still though, a car down on power will cripple your lap times if you dont optimize corners and braking points as well as optimizing pretty much everything, what gear your in, etc