Electric water pump & road racing...
10-04-2002, 05:55 PM
#1
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Electric water pump & road racing...
What do you road racing guys think about electric water pumps (Meziere, CSI) in road racing use (I'm talking LT1 applications here.)
I'm running out of mods to gain horsepower and the electric has its advantages, but I've never heard of any open track guys running them.
So what would be the negatives, if any? The positive would be that the pump would run at a constant speed and not be subjected to constant changes in RPM...plus the more even cooling benefits.
I just don't want to take the plunge only to find out that when I finally stop talking about open tracking and start doing it that an elec. water pump is ill-advised for such uses.
I'm running out of mods to gain horsepower and the electric has its advantages, but I've never heard of any open track guys running them.
So what would be the negatives, if any? The positive would be that the pump would run at a constant speed and not be subjected to constant changes in RPM...plus the more even cooling benefits.
I just don't want to take the plunge only to find out that when I finally stop talking about open tracking and start doing it that an elec. water pump is ill-advised for such uses.
10-04-2002, 07:14 PM
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Chris
I posted this exact question in LT1 tech a while back and got no response. I have a 94 that I am currently rebuilding for SCCA ITE regionals and various open track fun. I decided on the Meziere before I really knew what I was getting into. I had to since I went with the double roller but I was afraid I was now going to run into cooling problems at high rpm's. I will be using a Be-Cool radiator but I was still unsure. So I called Meziere directly and asked your question. They said absolutely yes. They claimed they have road racing cars using them with no problem. They also have the high-flow unit that would probably work great but I already have the standard unit wired-up so I will try that first. Sorry I can't give you an answer yet but I would say do it.
I posted this exact question in LT1 tech a while back and got no response. I have a 94 that I am currently rebuilding for SCCA ITE regionals and various open track fun. I decided on the Meziere before I really knew what I was getting into. I had to since I went with the double roller but I was afraid I was now going to run into cooling problems at high rpm's. I will be using a Be-Cool radiator but I was still unsure. So I called Meziere directly and asked your question. They said absolutely yes. They claimed they have road racing cars using them with no problem. They also have the high-flow unit that would probably work great but I already have the standard unit wired-up so I will try that first. Sorry I can't give you an answer yet but I would say do it.
10-04-2002, 07:16 PM
#3
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i guess it could be unforgiving if it stopped running during a race.
on the street or at the 1/4 mile, it's over pretty quick, so it's more forgiving than 15-30 mins of high rpm (and the driver not concentrating too much on the water temp gauge)
an insurance would be to mount a water pump failure light on the pillar so you would be sure and see it.
on the street or at the 1/4 mile, it's over pretty quick, so it's more forgiving than 15-30 mins of high rpm (and the driver not concentrating too much on the water temp gauge)
an insurance would be to mount a water pump failure light on the pillar so you would be sure and see it.
10-05-2002, 03:02 PM
#5
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Well, since I seem to be one of the few people using an electric water pump in a road racing environment, I guess I'll add my $.02.
I have an LT1 with every cooling modification possible. 160 thermostat, electric fans come on soon and stay on longer, Be-Cool radiator and CSI electric water pump. I originally purchased a Meziere pump, but I sold it to a friend because it wouldn't fit with the Be-Cool radiator. Then I bought a CSI pump, which sticks out half as far as the Meziere. I also removed the entire A/C system and pulled the radiator forward by drilling new holes in the plastic radiator shroud/cover. I drilled the holes only an inch from the stock holes, but that 1 inch made a huge difference in clearance between the radiator and the engine.
I live in Phoenix, AZ. I road race through NASA, the track periods are 15 to 20 minutes long. Coolant temp. depends on the air temp., my car stays around 190 during cooler days, around 80 F and climbs up to 210 on 90+ F days, but only towards the end of the track period. Basically, it cools slightly better than the stock pump. Best thing about the electric pump is the HP gain and the ability to run the pump and fans while my car is sitting in the pits.
As for watching the engine temps. I have several Auto Meter gauges which I watch throughout the track time. After several laps I become familiar with the track and settle into a groove. This allows me to glance over the gauges every other lap. I'm always watching the water and oil temp. I also glance at the fuel and oil pressure gauges during straight section launches.
Kurt
I have an LT1 with every cooling modification possible. 160 thermostat, electric fans come on soon and stay on longer, Be-Cool radiator and CSI electric water pump. I originally purchased a Meziere pump, but I sold it to a friend because it wouldn't fit with the Be-Cool radiator. Then I bought a CSI pump, which sticks out half as far as the Meziere. I also removed the entire A/C system and pulled the radiator forward by drilling new holes in the plastic radiator shroud/cover. I drilled the holes only an inch from the stock holes, but that 1 inch made a huge difference in clearance between the radiator and the engine.
I live in Phoenix, AZ. I road race through NASA, the track periods are 15 to 20 minutes long. Coolant temp. depends on the air temp., my car stays around 190 during cooler days, around 80 F and climbs up to 210 on 90+ F days, but only towards the end of the track period. Basically, it cools slightly better than the stock pump. Best thing about the electric pump is the HP gain and the ability to run the pump and fans while my car is sitting in the pits.
As for watching the engine temps. I have several Auto Meter gauges which I watch throughout the track time. After several laps I become familiar with the track and settle into a groove. This allows me to glance over the gauges every other lap. I'm always watching the water and oil temp. I also glance at the fuel and oil pressure gauges during straight section launches.
Kurt
10-08-2002, 05:43 PM
#6
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I have no experience with the Electric water pumps, but I have heard things that would make me think twice about using them. First of all, my on-track sessions at Sears Point were about 30 min. long each, and I was shifting @ about 5,500-6,000 every time. My car was running at about 210 degrees. The things that I would worry about when using the Electic water pump is the constan high RPM's. The stock water pump increases in speed with the RPM's, so the higher that you tach it, the more water is being pumped through the motor, whereas with the Electric pump, it will alway be pumping the same amount, no matter how many RPM's you're pulling. I heard of cooling problems arising due to this. I think that I will stay away from one until I see that they are working without anybody having problems.
Other than that, how do you hook up a Warning light?
Brian
Other than that, how do you hook up a Warning light?
Brian
10-08-2002, 05:53 PM
#7
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While it is true that the electric pump does not increase with rpm's, it is more efficient and moves more water than the stock pump so it should still feed a high-rpm motor. Plus they make a HD unit that flows even more than the standard one. The stock pump may be turning more at high rpm's but the inherent inefficiency of the impeller(if you haven't seen it you should) means it is probably not going to flow much more at high rpm than a high-efficiency electric pump at constant rpm. But I guess I will have to prove that myself next season.
10-08-2002, 07:12 PM
#8
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I think Meziere claims a constant 30 GPM, and I think I read somewhere the stock pump maxes at around 25.
Here's the diagram for the warning light:
http://www.akmcables.com/mezinst2.jpg
Here's the diagram for the warning light:
http://www.akmcables.com/mezinst2.jpg
10-09-2002, 09:16 AM
#9
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Originally posted by Chris 96 WS6
I think Meziere claims a constant 30 GPM, and I think I read somewhere the stock pump maxes at around 25.[/url]
I think Meziere claims a constant 30 GPM, and I think I read somewhere the stock pump maxes at around 25.[/url]
I've been using a CSI electric pump for 2 years without a problem. "knock on wood!!!"
Kurt
10-09-2002, 10:00 AM
#10
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Though I'm far from a road racer, I've got one, and seen a bit.
With no other cooling mods at all, stock thermostat, stock fans, I dropped 10 degrees while cruising, and 15 degrees while just sitting at a light. It helps a bit.
The high RPM - even at 6000rpm, the stock is outflowed by the meziere. And I dont remember who here has that "myths" page, but pumping the coolant through really fast does not inhibit cooling because it just goes through more. Aside from a nice coolant leak from a dying pump, and I found out my old stocker had the impeller blades contact the housing, luckily it wasnt bad enough to shave metal into my coolant though, but still...
Was easy as sin to install, I have the warning light hooked up, and once I get the new thermostat and fan switch I doubt I'll ever get *warm*. I even tried to test the "high rpm" ability by running the car on the highway in 4th gear and 4000rpm, and it ran 15 deg cooler then stock. I tried pulling numerous 5500rpm shifts down a section of local stop-and-go night riding with 0-70 and shutting down light to light. Water pump kept it cooler, about 10 degrees(still no other cooling mods). Cool enough my fans havent kicked on since I installed it.
Only thing I've ever heard is that some of them cavitate more often then the stock pump, which is obviously bad, but even then it's not often.
With no other cooling mods at all, stock thermostat, stock fans, I dropped 10 degrees while cruising, and 15 degrees while just sitting at a light. It helps a bit.
The high RPM - even at 6000rpm, the stock is outflowed by the meziere. And I dont remember who here has that "myths" page, but pumping the coolant through really fast does not inhibit cooling because it just goes through more. Aside from a nice coolant leak from a dying pump, and I found out my old stocker had the impeller blades contact the housing, luckily it wasnt bad enough to shave metal into my coolant though, but still...
Was easy as sin to install, I have the warning light hooked up, and once I get the new thermostat and fan switch I doubt I'll ever get *warm*. I even tried to test the "high rpm" ability by running the car on the highway in 4th gear and 4000rpm, and it ran 15 deg cooler then stock. I tried pulling numerous 5500rpm shifts down a section of local stop-and-go night riding with 0-70 and shutting down light to light. Water pump kept it cooler, about 10 degrees(still no other cooling mods). Cool enough my fans havent kicked on since I installed it.
Only thing I've ever heard is that some of them cavitate more often then the stock pump, which is obviously bad, but even then it's not often.
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