Im not too sure about spring rates and pressure and i need to know if these will work for my setup.

I just won these on ebay, are they good for my needs?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=7949896063

Heads: Afr 190 heads
RPM: 6000 RPM redline
Cubic Inch: 383ci
Cam: 224I/234E at .050" lift 113LSA
Lifters: Standard Hydraulic Roller maybe comp R's
Rockers: 1.5 ratio

AFR says that the heads can have the spring pockets cut to 1.650 and no deeper so will these springs work well or are they for a solid roller setup?

Will they work for a hydraulic roller setup?


Thanks,
T.C.

 

they can be made to work in a hydraulic roller setup, but I don't think they are what you are wanting...

 

well i allready bought them so how can i make them work? or would it be more worthwhile to just buy some springs more suited to my needs.

Thanks,
T.C.

 

Linkie no workie. What are the specs?

Rich

 

Okay, while MyGreenBabyZ is trying to fix that non working link to his valve spring specs, I'd like to hijack his thread for just a moment because I have a very similar question to the one he's asking. I'm in the final stages of setting up my home ported and polished LT1 heads and I also have two quick questions about valve spring seat pressures, installed heights and rates. You'll need to know the following info to provide any type of worthwhile answer to my questions so here goes.

My setup is using: Crane P/N 99893 dual valve springs with Comp Cam P/N 4785 spring locators and the retainers and locks supplied with the Crane P/N 10308-1 kit. My cam is the Comp XE 230/236 with .544"I and .555"E lift with 1.6 Comp Pro Mag roller rockers. Valves are Ferrea 6000 series 2.00"I/1.56"E with +.050" stem length. Lifters are stock GM hydralic rollers.

Question 1 is: After assemblying all 16 valves without using any shims, (just the seats, springs, retainers and locks), I measured the installed height of all 16 valves and found they varied from a maximum of 1.914" to a minimum of 1.873", for a variation of .041" across all 16 valves. Is this amount of variation, (i.e. .041") okay for a daily driven LT1, or should I try to shim some of the springs to improve upon this? If I should shim some springs, what would be an acceptable variation in spring heights to shoot for?

Question 2 is: From the Crane web site for these valve springs, they show a value of 120 lb. seat pressure at an installed height of 1.875", and an average spring rate of 391#/in. in this height range. At my average installed height of 1.8935", my calculated seat pressure should be around 112.8 lbs. Is a seat pressure variation of between 105 - 121 lbs. okay for my cam and valvetrain setup with an M6 and shift point of 6,500 RPM? Would you expect to see ANY valve float problems with my valvetrain set up running at these seat pressures?

As always, thanks to all who have "been there and done this", and can provide any useful info regarding the above two questions. And thanks in advance to all who reply.

 

Shims are cheap. If you've got a mic and are going to the trouble of measuring installed height, why wouldn't you shim them? If your thinnest shims are .015 that guarantees you can get them all within +/- .0075 of your target height at the worst.

 

The installed height of the valve spring is the distance between the valve seat and the outer edge of the spring retainer (which is the height of the valve spring). To check installed height do the following.

1. Install the valves, retainers and valve locks.
2. Hold the valve closed by pulling the retainer up tightly against the valve lock.
3. Measure the distance between the outside edge of the valve spring retainer and the seat.
4. Check the height against what is recommended on the cam card or at what you have determined is the proper height. +/- 0.020" is acceptable.
5. If the installed height is not within 0.020", either machining the valve pocket, or removal/installation of valve spring shims is necessary.

Before installing the springs, they should be tested with a spring tester. Garden variety high performance springs will vary up to 10% from spec. More than that and the spring should not be used. If they are premium springs (the ~$300+ per set kind) they should have very little variation. I have bought more than one "set" of valve springs in which one, or more springs were bad, or simply the wrong spring. I have also had sets where all of the springs were not what I ordered (and were not what was on the label on the box). Also do a visual inspection for any surface defects. Springs with surface defects have a short life expectancy.

Rich

 

Im SO sorry about that, i pasted the link wrong. sorry.

Link works now and specs are as follows:

These are dual springs with a damper.
The outside diameter is 1.580 and the inside diameter is .740.
The free-length is 2.600.
They are 220 ponds on the seat at 1.950 installed height.
Open pressure is 540 at 1.285 with a Max lift of .680
They coil bind at 1.185
10 degree titanium retainers for an 11/32 stem valve.

 

That's a lot more spring than you need for the cam and maybe just plain to much for hydraulic lifters.

Rich

 

Well since i allready own them, will they work with some comp r's or should i just try to sell them and buy some different springs?

If selling them is the case, what springs do you suggest in the 150-200 dollar range.

Thank you very much,
T.C.

 

First off, Jon and Rich thanks for your inputs. I now know that +/- .020" is an acceptable tolerance for installed height across an engine set of 16 valves, and that is currently about where I'm at with a range of .041" from min to max. What about valve seat pressure for a hydralic roller cam like the XE 230/236. Does around 112 +/- 8 lbs. sound about right?

MyGreenBabyZ, 220 lbs on the seat with your springs!!! And 540 lbs. "over the nose"!!! You are running solid roller lifters, right?

Thanks again to all who replied.

 

those are way to much. your cam needs about 130lbs installed and 330lbs open. they won't work for the simply fact that at that pressure you'll bleed down your lifters.i got a set of new springs i'll make you a deal on if your interested.
matt

 

I usually set up springs to a +.010 there have been cases where I have surface ground shims to a set height so I can get the heights within +.005, part of the issue is that if they are under then you might run into coil bind.

Other instances you will set the springs up to a certain pressure but that's less likely a case.

BTW 112lbs seated might be good for a hyd flat tappet but you can't get much RPM out of a semi aggressive cam lobe at that seated pressure. 130lbs is getting closer but it all depends on RPM, valve, spring and retainer masses and how aggressive the lobe is.

Bret

 

sure muraoka what kind of springs you got? I might be intrested, Please take to PM.

Is anyone intrested in a set of springs and titanium retainers for a great deal?

I figred these were too much for a hydraulic roller setup but i couldn't pass the deal up.

Thanks all.

 

Bret, in the quote below you meant to say 112 lbs seated not "over the nose" right??? My springs should give me about 330 lbs "over the nose", assuming a .555" valve lift. when set up at approximately 112/115 lbs seated pressure.