First some tech, then below a story.

Does anyone know the valve lift, runner c.c., engine specifics
of a top fuel motor?



Anyway, for those that ever believed that top fuel
motors don't use piston rings - BULL!

All that crap about "Oh, they don't use them because
of friction", or "they don't have time to install
them between rounds", or even "the tolerances are
so good with the bore and piston, they don't need them"


If you've never seen a top fuel car run, you don't
know what you're missing! The power and sound from
those motors is incredible. As the cars would
pass by, the stands would shake and the sound pounded
you in the chest!

There was so much vibration from the stands shaking,
my eyes would go out of focus! Kinda like looking
in your rear view mirror with the stereo bass cranked!

I was fortunate enough to be allowed into a top fuel
pit area. Close enough to lick the valve covers!
I've never met such a friendly team of mechanics and
techs.
They answered all of my questions and let me take
video of the engine build.

That story about your retinas detaching from negative
7g's upon hitting the parachutes IS ALL TRUE as well!
The tech mentioned the driver's name and that he retired
after the injury. I wish I had the memory to recall the driver
involved.

 

DON GARLITZ
I WIN I WIN OK is there a prize.

 

Here is a close up of a top fuel piston with all
four rings installed.

http://members.rogers.com/tdese739/topfuelrings.jpg

==========================================

thats 3 ring setup

the oil ring is a Hastings design (vertical)

currently the SpeedPro/SealedPower (horizontal)
and the Hastings (vertical) oil ring designs are the only 2 designs possible that will support both the inner and outter portions of the oil ring rails, and yet still have tremendous room for oil to flow into oil groove and between segments, and out thru oil holes in pistons.

other oil designs usually choke off oil flow into oil groove or cannot flow enough oil between segments towards oil holes .
and only support rails at either inner or outter locations but not both as good as Hastings or SpeedPro

 

Joe Amato also.

 

Sorry no prize. I spent all my money on the tickets and the overpriced water and food this weekend! :P

I'm hoping this thread will take a more technical twist. I guess I've
already learned a couple of things. I always thought the retainer
rings for the oil band were considered rings as well.

Now that I've seen a TF piston, I can see the difference in the
vertical and horizontal oil ring assembly.

Another thing I forgot to mention is that they use billet aluminum
connecting rods. I would have assumed something stronger.

What sort of AL alloy is used?

 

Yes, Joe retired due to the danger of detatched retinas. I don't think Big Daddy Garlits had that problem; he retired for other reasons.

Remember Top Fuel engines are almost unique in the engine world. They run fewer than 650 revolutions in anger during one race. (8000rpm * 4.6 sec/60 sec) is the math. Half of those revs are power strokes. The loads the piston/rod/crank takes is truly amazing. Aluminum rods are not as stiff as steel, so they can act like a shock absorber to help keep things from breaking. Obviously millions of cycles of endurnace isn't a concern.

Probably 6061 T6 is the alloy of choice for rods. Someone here should know for sure. 7075 is stronger, but it probably wouldn't be as good a "shock absorber".

Be a little careful about "licking the valve covers" on a TF car. Nitro does nasty things to the human body if injested.

 

lol
my dads friends car

 

What kind (Brand name) of supercharger? We make a few parts for one of them.

 

for the bluechip?
I dunno much about it......my dad's worked on some of his previous cars with him (before he got into the funny cars)

 

Manley, Childs & Albert, Howards and a few others claim to be using 7075. Childs & Albert go on to say that, "2014 is commonly used by other manufacturers", but I'll be darned if I know of one that uses it.

BME use to use 7075 but they have changed to a, "stronger grade used by Boeing for wing spars, etc." A little research on my part has me convinced they are probably using 7150-T77. Thought the article interesting so I saved the bookmark if you're interested, http://www.asminternational.org/imag...enten_1003.pdf

The shock loads would be lessened with a less-stiff aluminum alloy but I suspect it's a trade off as even 7075 is better than 4340 steel in that regard. Heck, some of the big nitrous Mopars (Indy blocks) were trying aluminum main caps here a few years back.

-Mindgame

 

I was pretty sure that Don Garlitz was running in the IHRA series.

 

The more I think about that one, the more oxymoronic it seems cause no one actually in-the-know-year-2004, is telling the truth or even talking much about it.

Might want to read some of Larry Widmer's stuff on Pro Stock sometime. It's an interesting read although a bit dated.

-Mindgame

 

You're not kidding Mindgame!

I've been trying to scoop some info on these motors for years just
out of pure interest.

I guess nobody is going to disclose any secrets to making 6000+ HP?

If you could give me more information on Widmer's book, I would
appreciate it. Some of these guys already have me digging through
"Scientific Design of Exhaust and Intake Systems" which is proving
to be worth the $30.00 CDN!

Thanks in Advance,
Tino

 

No book from Widmer, just some tech articles and Q&A stuff from his Endyn site.
He's now a Honduh guy, although I don't hold that against him too much. He's an interesting character and hey, you can learn a few things from reading what he has to say..... at least he's good at making you think. To be a good learner, you have to take the pieces and draw your own conclusions, understanding that you will never learn from those who agree with everything you say. And where Pro Stock is concerned... well you just have to take what you can get.

Widmer on Pro Stock,
http://www.theoldone.com/archive/pro...ing-engine.htm

The archive,
http://www.theoldone.com/archive/

-Mindgame

 

Mindgame-

Thanks for the links. Most interesting reading.

He mentions the F-111 (during an intake velocity post), and it's ability to maintain Mach 1+ at sea level and all the airframe challenges that presents. Yeah, most folks didn't know or appreciate that. It does make one hard to shoot down at 200 ft. above the ground!

One big challenge in that flight regime is bird strikes. Hitting a couple pound bird at over 1/4 mile per second does bad things to a windshield. Think MANY layers of transparent material with elastic material between the layers.

Thanks again.