i bought a set of JE forged flat top pistons for a 4" bore and i ordera set of Total Seal TSS piston rings but i have to hone the block .005 for the piston rings will these 4" pistons still work

i am guessing that the .005 doesnt impact the piston it just gives enough clearance for the rings to fit? Correct?

 

are the rings 4.005" rings? If so you just file fit them to work, you don't bore the block out to that, if you did the Piston to Wall clearance would be too big.

Bret

 

Didn't you ask this already?

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...threadid=73745

Are you still going to run the gapless rings?

 

yes they are 4.005" rings with ring width gaps 1/16, 1/16, 3/16

hard hard is it to file fit rings can a person with no experience filing rings do this?

and yes i am still going to run total seal TSS gapless rings

it worth a try

 

you just have to do it right, you always have to file the rings.

I would go with the Max Seal or the TS1's first. Problem is they are very picky concerning the machining of the block.

Bret

 

Good luck...changing rings is not a simple ten minute deal. They sucked me in three times but I learned my lesson.

Jody

 

i chose the total seal TSS rings .005 over

so that means i just need to fit them then not hone the block .005 over correct

i thought the TSS rings were already pre gapped

 

NEVER bore a block to fit rings. The only time a block should be bored, is when the machine shop has the pistons to be used in hand, so they can measure them for exact fit. Then you fit the rings to the piston/cylinder.

As far as gapless rings go, I'd never use them. Heard too many bad things. But if you're set on them, you've got to file-fit them to fit each cylinder. Place the ring in the cylinder, then press the piston down on top of the ring, upside-down in the cylinder. This will press the ring in level. Then you will see how much you have to file the ring down (it will most likely overlap since you've got 4.005 rings in a 4.000 bore). Do this for each cylinder, and keep the rings and cylinders in order. If you file a ring to fit in #2, you don't want it ending up in #5.

 

you just need to file the top ring correct?

 

It doesn't hurt to check them all to make sure the gaps on them are set proper. Drop the other rings in, and check with a feeler guage for gap.

 

i want to put on the oil ring first
then put on the second ring and
then put on the top ring then file fit it

correct?

but ususally you dont have to check the other rings just the top ring right?

 

I'm trying still to figure out what makes people hate them so much.

Joe Gibbs Racing doesn't Tony Stewart won the Winston Cup with them this year. (they have stated in engineering magazines that's offically what they used.)

Bret

 

What makes me hate them so much is they use oil and smoke. The first set was on an engine from TPI Specialties which I would consider as professionals. They used the exact procedure that Total Seal wanted for hone and finish. I get the motor off the dyno and in the car and notice it smokes under full throttle and uses oil; quart every 600-800 miles. Talk to Myron Cottrell (owner of TPIS) sends me the parts to repair along with a new set of rings. Had a local sprint car machine shop re-do the block. He also called TS to get exact finish specs; same thing. Pulled the engine, swapped to Speed Pro plasma moly's, re-assembled and end of problem.

A year later I build a blower motor and decide to try the Total Seal rings again; same result. That's three for three, two different engines, and three different machine shops all with the same results. Swapped those for the Speed Pro's and again sealed immediately and no oil useage.

I'll NEVER try them again, even for free, as it's too time consuming to replace them when they don't work. I've built several engines since, up to 1200 HP pump gas deals with the Speed Pro's without issues. I stick with what works for me. And this type of thread has come up many times on the dozen or so car boards I frequent, ALWAYS with the same results; 90% of the people who've used them say they use oil and would never do it again.

Jody

 

The original TS gapless ring was located in the 2nd ring groove, or the secondary compression ring. But that may be the inherit defect of the design, and problem causing oil consumption. The secondary compression ring isn't really a compression ring. It is primarily a oil control/scrapper ring. The latest generation of TS gapless puts the ring in the top groove, where is can do it's primary job more effectively, the job it was designed to do, that of sealing compression pressure. No, I'm not a dealer, nor is this designed to promote the product, just stating what I consider relevant info.

 

Arnie,

Thanks for the info. A lot of the engine builders agreed that you shouldn't seal up the second ring as it would not be available to help the oil ring to control the oil. Had heard of people trying to make the top ring gapless, but didn't know that Total Seal was doing it that way.

Just had a 434 small block Vette in a friends shop that was using oil; brand new engine built by a pro shop. Had the Total Seal rings, gapless second ring. He replaced them with plasma moly's and solved the problem. This was a pretty recent build and were still using the second ring as gapless.

Jody