Top fuel engines, im intrigued, bear with me
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 550
From: KC; Where grandma drives in the left lane
Flow numbers on those things would be interesting. A buddy of mine is crew chief on a match race fuel car, and I've looked over their heads. They're rectangle port, and absolutely giant.
What I've never understood is how the blocks last as long as they do. They have individual sleeves in an aluminum block, and to me it seems they should do all sorts of distortion, but I guess they don't, since they don't push head gaskets very often.
What I've never understood is how the blocks last as long as they do. They have individual sleeves in an aluminum block, and to me it seems they should do all sorts of distortion, but I guess they don't, since they don't push head gaskets very often.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,931
From: Upstate NY
Originally posted by LameRandomName
Anhydrous Hydrazine?
Anhydrous Hydrazine?
C Stoff? 30% hydrazine hydrate + 57% methanol perhaps?
No, I wasn't referring to McVeigh, if that's where you are going?
A few guys blew up a few fuel rails by mixing hydrazine in with the nitro, doing a wheelie and dropping it hard back on the tarmac. Boom!
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,639
From: Toledo, OH
Im confused about all this hydrazine talk, Im assuming all you guys that know so much about it have studied it in an advanced chemistry class or something like that? And it sounded like one guy is in the military in demolition or something?
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 10,745
From: Buffalo, New York
We did some testing on my friends alcohol Hemi and it takes ~200hp to drive the SC. It's similar in size and design to the ones used on TF cars, but is spun at ~60% the speed. Shouldn't it take ~2X the hp to drive the blower on a TF car then? I am not too good at math and physics, but that would imply ~400hp to drive the blower on a fuel car.
Rich Krause
Rich Krause
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,248
From: Bountiful, Utah
Originally posted by JordonMusser
I doubt they even use head gaskets, its probably a o-ring type seal around the cylinder. i believe pro50 guys do this also.
I doubt they even use head gaskets, its probably a o-ring type seal around the cylinder. i believe pro50 guys do this also.
Moranmotorsports.com can do them
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 655
I love this topic, always interesting!
I don't know if it has been answered, but the top fuelers don't
use a gear box.
It's a direct couple from the crankshaft to the driveshaft via a massive clutch.
I have seen the head ports up close ... you can easily stick a closed fist down there!
One question I do have from an earlier post:
The engines turn about 8000 for 4.7 seconds or so, or less than 700 revs in anger before they are rebuilt.
"less than 700 revs before they are rebuilt"
Where does the 700 revs come into play?
Thanks for the clarification
I don't know if it has been answered, but the top fuelers don't
use a gear box.
It's a direct couple from the crankshaft to the driveshaft via a massive clutch.
I have seen the head ports up close ... you can easily stick a closed fist down there!
One question I do have from an earlier post:
The engines turn about 8000 for 4.7 seconds or so, or less than 700 revs in anger before they are rebuilt.
"less than 700 revs before they are rebuilt"
Where does the 700 revs come into play?
Thanks for the clarification
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,931
From: Upstate NY
Originally posted by Zero_to_69
I love this topic, always interesting!
I don't know if it has been answered, but the top fuelers don't
use a gear box.
It's a direct couple from the crankshaft to the driveshaft via a massive clutch.
How do they back them up after a burnout? maybe a gearbox with 1 forward and one reverse gear??
One question I do have from an earlier post:
The engines turn about 8000 for 4.7 seconds or so, or less than 700 revs in anger before they are rebuilt.
"less than 700 revs before they are rebuilt"
Where does the 700 revs come into play?
Thanks for the clarification
8000 rev/m / 60 sec/min = 133 revs/second x 4.7 seconds = 625 total revs at wide open throttle (in anger so to speak).
Of course that's only 313 firings per cylinder.
Rebuilding engines: pistons, rings, rods, and bearings are replaced after every run. Often more parts.
700 revs might be high.
FWIW, a Nextel Cup engine makes maybe a million revs+ in anger in a typical Cup race. F1 not far behind, and gaining as they force them to use one engine longer.
I love this topic, always interesting!
I don't know if it has been answered, but the top fuelers don't
use a gear box.
It's a direct couple from the crankshaft to the driveshaft via a massive clutch.
How do they back them up after a burnout? maybe a gearbox with 1 forward and one reverse gear??
One question I do have from an earlier post:
The engines turn about 8000 for 4.7 seconds or so, or less than 700 revs in anger before they are rebuilt.
"less than 700 revs before they are rebuilt"
Where does the 700 revs come into play?
Thanks for the clarification
8000 rev/m / 60 sec/min = 133 revs/second x 4.7 seconds = 625 total revs at wide open throttle (in anger so to speak).
Of course that's only 313 firings per cylinder.
Rebuilding engines: pistons, rings, rods, and bearings are replaced after every run. Often more parts.
700 revs might be high.
FWIW, a Nextel Cup engine makes maybe a million revs+ in anger in a typical Cup race. F1 not far behind, and gaining as they force them to use one engine longer.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,931
From: Upstate NY
Originally posted by rskrause
We did some testing on my friends alcohol Hemi and it takes ~200hp to drive the SC. It's similar in size and design to the ones used on TF cars, but is spun at ~60% the speed. Shouldn't it take ~2X the hp to drive the blower on a TF car then? I am not too good at math and physics, but that would imply ~400hp to drive the blower on a fuel car.
Rich Krause
We did some testing on my friends alcohol Hemi and it takes ~200hp to drive the SC. It's similar in size and design to the ones used on TF cars, but is spun at ~60% the speed. Shouldn't it take ~2X the hp to drive the blower on a TF car then? I am not too good at math and physics, but that would imply ~400hp to drive the blower on a fuel car.
Rich Krause
Wish I'd said that.
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 655
Gotcha OldSS...
But the absence of a gearbox I'm referring to is a multi-speed
type. TF are only allowed 1:1 in forward ... that's what I meant
by direct couple.
Here is a photo of the clutch and transmission used.
http://w1.331.telia.com/~u33106502/d.../koppling1.JPG
http://w1.331.telia.com/~u33106502/d...s_dr/backv.jpg
BTW - Thanks for the explanation of 700 Revs!
But the absence of a gearbox I'm referring to is a multi-speed
type. TF are only allowed 1:1 in forward ... that's what I meant
by direct couple.
Here is a photo of the clutch and transmission used.
http://w1.331.telia.com/~u33106502/d.../koppling1.JPG
http://w1.331.telia.com/~u33106502/d...s_dr/backv.jpg
BTW - Thanks for the explanation of 700 Revs!
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,931
From: Upstate NY
Originally posted by Zero_to_69
Gotcha OldSS...
Gotcha OldSS...
6000hp/500 CID = 12 hp/cube x 1,000,000 CID = 12 million hp.
If things like that scale up. Oh, yeah, that's on 90% nitro.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 655
Uh oh...let me restate that:
Gotcha OldSS = Understood your explanation
Not
"Ha ha, you messed up"
Truth be told, besides the couple of photos I see and interviews
from Amato, Force, Skuza, etc. I know sweet f**k all about
top fuel/funny cars
PS: I like your math. 12 Million HP would do some damage with
traction huh?
Back to the thread!
Gotcha OldSS = Understood your explanation
Not
"Ha ha, you messed up"
Truth be told, besides the couple of photos I see and interviews
from Amato, Force, Skuza, etc. I know sweet f**k all about
top fuel/funny cars
PS: I like your math. 12 Million HP would do some damage with
traction huh?
Back to the thread!
