Stainless vs chromemoly rockers
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Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 141
From: Secret underground performance lab
mine is a solid roller . have you done deflection tests between the two? I bet its not a big difference between the two when used with the typical 600 pound on the nose sr spring. The deflection in the pushrods would be of far greater concern to me.
if I had deeper pockets I would have gone for the stainless Crowers or Comps but......
if I had deeper pockets I would have gone for the stainless Crowers or Comps but......
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,518
True the pushrod will deflect more but the rocker is still going to deflect at 600lbs over the nose. I really stop using the Pro Mags at around 400lbs over the nose. Even then if you decrease the delfection in the system you can see 10-20hp, so I would imagine that if you had stiff pushrods and stiffere rockers you could find some more power.
Now if you look at the LS1 motors, those guys are gaining 10-15hp over the stock rockers on setups where 300lbs over the nose. It's not just the roller tip reducing friction but going all out and getting that delfection out of the stock rocker. Then again they cna also get 410-450rwhp with stock ports in their heads with HR cams, it's going to be cool to see a well done SR in one of those things.
Bret
Now if you look at the LS1 motors, those guys are gaining 10-15hp over the stock rockers on setups where 300lbs over the nose. It's not just the roller tip reducing friction but going all out and getting that delfection out of the stock rocker. Then again they cna also get 410-450rwhp with stock ports in their heads with HR cams, it's going to be cool to see a well done SR in one of those things.
Bret
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,639
From: Toledo, OH
Looks like I can get the hitechs for $339, so I might just use those, hell, cant hurt, and Id be kinda special, not many people use them. Plus after what Bret said about 15-20hp possiblilty in decreasing deflection in the rocker, maybe not over promags, but over other types such as aluminum or stamped.
Who seems to make the best pushrod these days, still 5/16 though. I liked my trick flows since they were the only part to survive in my engine!
Who seems to make the best pushrod these days, still 5/16 though. I liked my trick flows since they were the only part to survive in my engine!
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,985
From: In a house by the bay
If you have a good engine simulator, vary the stiffness of the rocker arms on a 6500+ aggressive roller engine and notice what it does to hp curves. I'm not sure if all simulators have this option.
Originally posted by jonaddis84
Looks like I can get the hitechs for $339, so I might just use those, hell, cant hurt, and Id be kinda special, not many people use them. Plus after what Bret said about 15-20hp possiblilty in decreasing deflection in the rocker, maybe not over promags, but over other types such as aluminum or stamped.
Who seems to make the best pushrod these days, still 5/16 though. I liked my trick flows since they were the only part to survive in my engine!
Looks like I can get the hitechs for $339, so I might just use those, hell, cant hurt, and Id be kinda special, not many people use them. Plus after what Bret said about 15-20hp possiblilty in decreasing deflection in the rocker, maybe not over promags, but over other types such as aluminum or stamped.
Who seems to make the best pushrod these days, still 5/16 though. I liked my trick flows since they were the only part to survive in my engine!
"Best pushrod" is all a matter of preference though. Most here are going to be Comp fans but my pushrod money goes to Manton. Their 11/32 to 5/16 taper pushrods are as much pushrod as you'll ever need for a SR street car.
-Mindgame
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,985
From: In a house by the bay
Originally posted by SStrokerAce
Now if you look at the LS1 motors, those guys are gaining 10-15hp over the stock rockers on setups where 300lbs over the nose. It's not just the roller tip reducing friction but going all out and getting that delfection out of the stock rocker. Then again they cna also get 410-450rwhp with stock ports in their heads with HR cams, it's going to be cool to see a well done SR in one of those things.
Bret
Now if you look at the LS1 motors, those guys are gaining 10-15hp over the stock rockers on setups where 300lbs over the nose. It's not just the roller tip reducing friction but going all out and getting that delfection out of the stock rocker. Then again they cna also get 410-450rwhp with stock ports in their heads with HR cams, it's going to be cool to see a well done SR in one of those things.
Bret
-Mindgame
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,518
Not much good engine software below $500 that's worth anything. Any program that does is not going to be close to a what a spintron will tell you.
As for pushrods I'm more of a Smith Brothers fan than anything. Hell a 7/16 tappered pushrod is more than most street guys need.
As for that 02 ZO6, I honestly think that 475-480rwhp is doable with stock LS6 castings. 450rwhp has already been done with a LS1 casting and a HR cam, dam thing is not something I would consider driveable for any period of time, but you could cruise it around. The good thing about the LS1 motor is that the stock LS1 heads which are the worst of the bunch flow what a bunch of ported LT1 castings flow, finally guys like Ai and Lloyd are getting more flow than them, but the LS6 castings are really impressive for a as cast OEM stock part. 260cfm and enough camshaft should make a ton of HP. The real trick is to make the thing a real street car. There is a good amount of power between a car that needs a vacuum canister to work the brakes and one that goes up hills on the highway in 6th gear with 3.73's in it at 60mph.
Bret
As for pushrods I'm more of a Smith Brothers fan than anything. Hell a 7/16 tappered pushrod is more than most street guys need.
As for that 02 ZO6, I honestly think that 475-480rwhp is doable with stock LS6 castings. 450rwhp has already been done with a LS1 casting and a HR cam, dam thing is not something I would consider driveable for any period of time, but you could cruise it around. The good thing about the LS1 motor is that the stock LS1 heads which are the worst of the bunch flow what a bunch of ported LT1 castings flow, finally guys like Ai and Lloyd are getting more flow than them, but the LS6 castings are really impressive for a as cast OEM stock part. 260cfm and enough camshaft should make a ton of HP. The real trick is to make the thing a real street car. There is a good amount of power between a car that needs a vacuum canister to work the brakes and one that goes up hills on the highway in 6th gear with 3.73's in it at 60mph.
Bret
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,931
From: Upstate NY
Originally posted by Mindgame
Which engine simulation programs (affordable for the avg. car guy, aka under $500) are you able to do this in? I'd be skeptical of any cheap simulation software that claims to be accurate here.
-Mindgame
Which engine simulation programs (affordable for the avg. car guy, aka under $500) are you able to do this in? I'd be skeptical of any cheap simulation software that claims to be accurate here.
-Mindgame
Like any software, GIGO applies. With any simulation software the more knowledgeable the user, the more useful the output information. But maybe I'm preaching to the choir here, MG.
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,985
From: In a house by the bay
Originally posted by SStrokerAce
Not much good engine software below $500 that's worth anything. Any program that does is not going to be close to a what a spintron will tell you.
Not much good engine software below $500 that's worth anything. Any program that does is not going to be close to a what a spintron will tell you.
As for pushrods I'm more of a Smith Brothers fan than anything. Hell a 7/16 tappered pushrod is more than most street guys need.
As for that 02 ZO6, I honestly think that 475-480rwhp is doable with stock LS6 castings. 450rwhp has already been done with a LS1 casting and a HR cam, dam thing is not something I would consider driveable for any period of time, but you could cruise it around. The good thing about the LS1 motor is that the stock LS1 heads which are the worst of the bunch flow what a bunch of ported LT1 castings flow, finally guys like Ai and Lloyd are getting more flow than them, but the LS6 castings are really impressive for a as cast OEM stock part. 260cfm and enough camshaft should make a ton of HP. The real trick is to make the thing a real street car. There is a good amount of power between a car that needs a vacuum canister to work the brakes and one that goes up hills on the highway in 6th gear with 3.73's in it at 60mph.
Bret
Bret
-Mindgame
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,445
From: Seattle, WA
Originally posted by Mindgame
[B]Most here are going to be Comp fans but my pushrod money goes to Manton. Their 11/32 to 5/16 taper pushrods are as much pushrod as you'll ever need for a SR street car.
[B]Most here are going to be Comp fans but my pushrod money goes to Manton. Their 11/32 to 5/16 taper pushrods are as much pushrod as you'll ever need for a SR street car.
Guess it comes down to buying quality once, instead of "good enough" twice.
hmmm... slap those on some Jesel shaft rockers, Brodix heads, Brodix block, etc.... its no wonder NHRA professionals need at least 20k per engine.
What we need to do is get a petition going to have GM build 4140 chromoly tapered pushrods in all future engines. That'll bring the costs down.
Last edited by Steve in Seattle; Apr 14, 2004 at 02:02 AM.
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,431
From: Pacific North West
I ran a set of Crowers for years on a solid roller cam motor shifting at 8,500. no problems.
In the past 6 years I have went through 3 sets of the Comp Cams crap and lost one cam shaft altogether..
I just picked up a set of those new Cat Stainless rockers for $149 to my door. Half of what I have been paying for the Comps.
OH YEAH Comp wants about $200 a set to "Rebuild" the damn things
In the past 6 years I have went through 3 sets of the Comp Cams crap and lost one cam shaft altogether..
I just picked up a set of those new Cat Stainless rockers for $149 to my door. Half of what I have been paying for the Comps.
OH YEAH Comp wants about $200 a set to "Rebuild" the damn things
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,445
From: Seattle, WA
Hmmm... just did a little window shopping:
$240 C.A.T. (SS stud)
$240 Comp Cams Pro Magnum (Chromoly stud)
$340 Comp Cams High Tech (SS stud)
$440 Crower (SS stud)
$600 Probe Industries (Aluminum/Steel shaft)
$695 Jesel Sportsman SS (SS shaft)
$890 T&D Machining (Alluminum/steel shaft)
And upwards they go to ~$2000.
Everyone above is rebuildable, but CompCams won't sell parts separately.
Hey Ellis, where did you score the CAT rockers so cheap?
$240 C.A.T. (SS stud)
$240 Comp Cams Pro Magnum (Chromoly stud)
$340 Comp Cams High Tech (SS stud)
$440 Crower (SS stud)
$600 Probe Industries (Aluminum/Steel shaft)
$695 Jesel Sportsman SS (SS shaft)
$890 T&D Machining (Alluminum/steel shaft)
And upwards they go to ~$2000.
Everyone above is rebuildable, but CompCams won't sell parts separately.
Hey Ellis, where did you score the CAT rockers so cheap?
Last edited by Steve in Seattle; Apr 15, 2004 at 01:32 AM.